SS/GT classes transmission?

[FireSale]

Originally Posted by 1347

Except when you try to put that Boss 302 in a different body to run GT, it only gives you stick class
Stick only engine combos are only allowed to run in a stick class. Same goes for the 85 mustang carb 302.

Duane

I have heard this numerous times on Class Racer but I can't find anything in the rules to support it. I simply can't find any rule restricting stick only showroom motors from being used with auto trans cars in GT.

[KRatcliff]

Originally Posted by FireSale

I have heard this numerous times on Class Racer but I can't find anything in the rules to support it. I simply can't find any rule restricting stick only showroom motors from being used with auto trans cars in GT.

The reference at the beginning of the Super Stock section:

"Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-produced automobiles and sports cars. Classified per NHRA performance rating as listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Only those cars listed in the guide are eligible."

The reference at the beginning of the Super Stock GT section:

"Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-production two-door coupes, two-door sedans, sports cars, convertibles, or station wagons with any production V-8 engine of the same make. Year of engine optional. Only those engines and/or bodies listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide are eligible
for competition."

You can view the class guide on NHRAracer.com for the 1970 Ford as an example. The GT section references both manual and automatic transmissions. Look under the 302 column and you will see only HP factors for the manual referenced and none for the automatic for OEM heads or replacement heads.

Which means the manual transmission is the only one in the guide and eligible for competition. There is no factor if you wanted to run an automatic so it wouldn't be eligible.

[Sean Marconette]

There a few of us that run those combinations that state STICK only in the guide, so they do exist.



Sean

[mannymen]

Sean, so u r running an automatic in a stick only GT combo?


Thank You

[Sean Marconette]

Originally Posted by mannymen

Sean, so u r running an automatic in a stick only GT combo?


Thank You

In my signature it states I run in SS/N, it is a traditional stick car. I was clarifying that there are a few combos in the guide that are stick only. Hope that makes sense?

Sean

[FireSale]

[QUOTE=KRatcliff;616929]The reference at the beginning of the Super Stock section:

"Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-produced automobiles and sports cars. Classified per NHRA performance rating as listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Only those cars listed in the guide are eligible."

The reference at the beginning of the Super Stock GT section:

"Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-production two-door coupes, two-door sedans, sports cars, convertibles, or station wagons with any production V-8 engine of the same make. Year of engine optional. Only those engines and/or bodies listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide are eligible
for competition."

You can view the class guide on NHRAracer.com for the 1970 Ford as an example. The GT section references both manual and automatic transmissions. Look under the 302 column and you will see only HP factors for the manual referenced and none for the automatic for OEM heads or replacement heads.

This is a good reply and I thank you for your time, but those opening paragraphs refer to engines and bodies, not transmissions. The 69 BOSS 392 is not listed as a stick or auto motor, just 392/290. I looked up the 69 Mustang Fastback and it isnt listed as a stick or auto car. Just 302/290 with a BOSS footnote. Note that I am referring to the Official NHRA Rules and Guides only.
Im not trying to be difficult, just looking for a bulletproof answer to the trans question in GT.

[KRatcliff]

Maybe this will help. Wesley explained to me that the NHRA rule book is written in a positive manner. In other words, you can’t do it unless it says you can do it. You can’t run an automatic in a stick only original combination that is in the guide because the rule book doesn’t say you can do it.

You are looking for a nuanced reason to be able to run one because you cannot find a direct reference as to it being illegal. There are some references as to prohibited items such as aluminum driveshafts unless originally equipped.

I think it would help you understand the rule book better if you read it in the manner it was written.

[FireSale]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

Maybe this will help. Wesley explained to me that the NHRA rule book is written in a positive manner. In other words, you can’t do it unless it says you can do it. You can’t run an automatic in a stick only original combination that is in the guide because the rule book doesn’t say you can do it.

You are looking for a nuanced reason to be able to run one because you cannot find a direct reference as to it being illegal. There are some references as to prohibited items such as aluminum driveshafts unless originally equipped.

I think it would help you understand the rule book better if you read it in the manner it was written.

Thank you. This is the best take on reading the rulebook I have come across. I'm too analytical for my own good sometimes. Reading between the lines just won't work here.
Thanks again.

[KRatcliff]

Originally Posted by FireSale

Thank you. This is the best take on reading the rulebook I have come across. I'm too analytical for my own good sometimes. Reading between the lines just won't work here.
Thanks again.

Thank you and you are welcome. I didn’t realize that was the way we were to read the rulebook until I started hammering Wesley with questions. That was when he had me back up and read it again with the mindset it was written in a positive manner.

I can see your original point and I had similar questions, but after he schooled me as he often does it became clearer. He got tired of me asking if the medical grade nitrous would break down Royal Purple 10 wt before the end of Indy. With class and all we make a lot of passes.

[Dwight Southerland]

A way to cross reference engine-transmission application is to look at the Tech Bulletin for the engine in question. The carburetor list will show OEM carburetors and their usage with the engine. If it only lists "SM" application ("sychromesh" or "standard manual") the engine was only available with a manual transmission. In the case of the 1969 Ford 302-290hp, the 1969 Ford tech bulletin lists "Holl C9ZF-J/SM ONLY,(3069)" as the legal carb selection. Since it says "SM ONLY", the engine was available with a manual transmission only. In the same way, on the same bulletin the carb for the 429-320hp engine shows "Ford C9AF-J/AUTO ONLY", which means that engine was only available with an automatic transmission. The other engines on the 1969 Ford tech bulletin have both SM and Auto carburetors listed so they can be considered to be able to use either type of transmission. That determines classification whether or not the class guide indicates manual or automatic.

Maybe this will help some with those determinations.