Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?

[novassdude]

Originally Posted by thomas r polk

The point i was making why not have buy back so the promoter could make some money and put on more of this type of races

This would be the number one car count killer for A Class race. People will happily buy back into a separate last chance race. S/SS maybe a bracket race for a good portion of the race. But the true S/SS people are very different minded than strait up bracket racers.

[Markeracer]

Michael Beard had this figured out years ago with the Autometer Northern Class Nationals. Separate Stock and SS winners, class racing and special races. He brought strong Award and Contingency support as well.

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...lass+nationals

[Steve Stickel]

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

Got admit I like it Steve! I could see rematches in the same race happening.

Eric

[REGGIE WINKLES]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

Kinda like a Slow-Pitch Softball Tournament (double elimination) the winner of the loser's side takes on the winner on the winner's bracket. But, he/she must beat the winner's side twice in order to be champion.

[Ryan Horensky]

Originally Posted by novassdude

This would be the number one car count killer for A Class race. People will happily buy back into a separate last chance race. S/SS maybe a bracket race for a good portion of the race. But the true S/SS people are very different minded than strait up bracket racers.

I'm really not sure how much of a car count killer this would be? It's obvious, some who have commented on here wouldn't attend if there were buybacks. Would be interesting to see what true impact it would have on car counts? I've spent time both bracket racing and running stock. Buybacks are a part of bracket racing. No doubt about it. I've been on the winning side, losing side, beat the same person twice, and lost to the same person twice. I realize most in the stock/super stock crowd still want to have the separation between the two forms of racing. Fuel check, scales, heads up, etc. I'm also understanding of someone promoting the race having to make enough money that they make a profit and in turn continue to put on races. If a promoter has fuel check, scales, heads-up races, but includes buybacks. This is a small compromise. Second chance races are cool, but if I were racing in a 25K to win race and I lost 1st round. The opportunity to buy back into the 25K would be more appealing to me than the opportunity to get into a second chance race.

[Gmirza]

Many interesting ideas. How about this, a full class runoff, the class winners go into one eliminator, like the old days, everybody else goes into another, then the winner of each, race for the overall win. The advantage would be the class winners race may only have 5 rounds where the other could be 7 or 8 depending on car count. Run the heads up races on Friday night in front of a crowd and the eliminators on Saturday with an all run combo race on Sunday with no tt for those who want to stick around. This would require some level of tech inspection of the class winners. This format would have something for everybody. Location and timing are the key for success, entries are needed to cover the cost. Maybe 3 races, one on each coast and one in the middle of the country.

[James Perrone]

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel
The format run at the Southern Sportman race was fine
You want a second chance race that’s fine ...but you run into the problem of not enough time
You folks want to run for class fine
But putting on race format like CIC race where the fastest wins 95% of the time is a no go
My car is pretty quick ..but let’s be real why waste my time with a second under car?
When some soft bogus combo is gonna win anyway
Bracket racing format is the fairest deal
Also the heads up format discourages slower class cars
So please support these races
These folks are doing. It for the love of the sport .
Hopefully a profit will be turned for the promoters..but it takes time

Racing a National Event make me feel dumb ..for the amount of time ,energy and $$$
Knowing when I commit I’m in for a run around and..Hurry Up And Wait
And zero customer service and zero f$&*#$ is.Given when I’m here to race.
I am only racing Virginia National because I had a credit.
Good riddance National Event jerk off BS. I’m over them

[TOSTO RACING]

Agree , if you want something to fill in the down time let guys make time runs and test for 50 bucks or something. I would have loved to have more hits on the tree while we were down ,just a thought and I'm sure guys would do it .


The National and Divisional races just aren't what they used to be and people are seeing it.

The Stock and Super stock combo races are great also like bowling green ky, and so on.


This is the perfect time for these last two big money races to shine!! I think they will get huge in the future.

In the end I think all we can ask for is to be treated good, paid well, and let people start seeing these awesome cars we run. I know the STL race was a hit on Motor Mania T.V. People that don't normally know what stock and super stock is, were getting into it and asking questions so thats a good thing!

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by James Perrone

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel

James, I don't believe I am doing that. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible and use existing software and Q sheets.
What I am doing is suggesting ways to get some spectators in on a Friday or Saturday night to watch some heads up racing.
The only other way is to increase the car count to the point where the payouts and expenses are covered and the promoters can then pocket some money off the racers.
Sounds too much like NHRA to me..I'd rather see the profit come from spectators and fans.