Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs

[SS3718]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

I can shed a little light on this. We had one of the first L-98 083 original head combo's rated at 265HP . Gulius ran it with a carburetor because at that point it was hard to find dyno shops, or people that were well versed enough to run and break them in on Fuel Injection. With his dyno Quadrajet, John got 635 HP out of that engine. It made almost as much as his 041's. In his words, it was "nasty". At the time we did not realize that the little 48 mm throttle body was going to take 15-20 HP out of that number. But that's another story. Problem was, every 10 runs it was springing a water leak. They leaked everywhere, combustion chamber, runners, and bowls, they were just a junk scalloped head casting. Dave Layer and myself looked over available heads from Eldebrock, GM, and Dart. We came up with the 070 Dart as being our candidate. We hollered out to the ranks and several of us wrote letters to NHRA, along with Dave being on an every week chat line with Bruce. Eventually Bruce agreed to allow the head. Dave Layer made 4 sets, and three of those leaked almost immediately. So we reached back out to Bruce and ask if we could "Trade Up" to another casting. We choose the Dart 010 as it was thicker than the 070, and with SS being filled back up to the allowed spec's anyway, could he possibly allow it. He wanted to see it, and I drove a bare 010 Dart out to Indianapolis so Bruce could have a look at it. I awaited off to the side while he looked, measured, and thought. He agreed and we then built new Dart 010 heads. I don't think originally those 070's, or 010's made any faster ET's as the OEM 083 because of the 50 lbs. you had to put with them. But currently they are faster because of the relentless push from guys like Lincoln, among several others...

Jeff,
Out of curiosity, we’re the OEM and first set of Dart heads junk or they just wouldn’t accept the innovative port design you wanted?

Nick

[bubski]

Originally Posted by SS3718

Jeff,
Out of curiosity, we’re the OEM and first set of Dart heads junk or they just wouldn’t accept the innovative port design you wanted?

Nick

Bubski is sure that anyone would like to have the most "innovative" set of heads possible !! However this is Stock n Super Stock and that is not the reality of the situation !! YOU have to work with what YOU choose as a combo !!! NOT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE !!

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by bubski

Bubski is sure that anyone would like to have the most "innovative" set of heads possible !! However this is Stock n Super Stock and that is not the reality of the situation !! YOU have to work with what YOU choose as a combo !!! NOT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE !!

That's saying that 85-92 350 cu in. Camaros and Firebirds could not run in the Super Stock class, as the 083 head was the only thing GM put on them. People tried the 217 casting which was worse than the 083. (It was a GM replacement head that came on cars and boats and was superseded by GM. If you went in and ordered a new set of 083's,, 217's came in the boxes) I know, we ordered a set) . Do you really think that boxing out the most popular car that GM had for a decade is what we should have done?

[bubski]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

That's saying that 85-92 350 cu in. Camaros and Firebirds could not run in the Super Stock class, as the 083 head was the only thing GM put on them. People tried the 217 casting which was worse than the 083. (It was a GM replacement head that came on cars and boats and was superseded by GM. If you went in and ordered a new set of 083's,, 217's came in the boxes) I know, we ordered a set) . Do you really think that boxing out the most popular car that GM had for a decade is what we should have done?

What Bubski is saying is that no one should be excluded from racing SS!! However when one picks a combo ,one has to be aware of the pitfalls as well as the benefits !! Build an aerodynamic Camaro to beat up on the chevy 2s and Ford and Mopar 60's and 70's cars !! Thats a great idea !! better front end bodywork to bracket race and a nice soft factor to start out with !! However the heads are not up to the task of being mercilessly over heated on the BBQ grill to braze the exhaust ports to pick up like a "second" on ET !! HAHA Then you mill off the entire intake flange on the 85b !! Then you CNC the heads to some template which is incompatible to the castings you have and someone owes you a replacement head ?? I suppose if Bubski ran a Chevrolet stocker i'd be begging for .904 lifters cause I really hate wiping cam lobes !! and would sure like to take advantage of the profiles available in .904 and its not fair cause someone else has them !!

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SS3718

Jeff,
Out of curiosity, we’re the OEM and first set of Dart heads junk or they just wouldn’t accept the innovative port design you wanted?

Nick

You know, Id love to be able to answer that. I'm not a head porter, and the man that did them is gone. And I miss him dearly. I do believe that Dave was taking the same port as he had in the 083's and just running them on the CNC machine. I remember him saying something like that, but we would have to ask Randy Brewer, as he was working right along side him. Anybody that ever owned a 624 Combo in SS had the same issues. They were sprinkler systems..
I remember sending those 083's to Rays Crack repair and he told me from the get go the material was like pop cans melted down and re-used, or something to that effect. He described them as these casting were like they had been laying on the bottom of the ocean for 100 years, and now we're trying to weld on them. Like spiderwebs down inside. ( I had purchase brand new castings from over the counter at the Chevrolet Dealership) After the third time in about six weeks of sending them back, first the bowls, then the runner and then a hole the size of a pencil eraser in the chamber, he said " Jeff, I hate to tell a guy to scuttle a brand new set of heads, but I'm afraid these heads are not raceable. I just put six grand in those things, and that hurt .. LOL