Best B.O.P. stock and super stockers of all time

[oldskool]

'62 was a pretty wild year for Pontiac. There were 421SD Pontiacs running in several strange classes. They appeared to be some sort of Super Stock classes, but were considered "Top Stock", including the A/FX & B/FX classes.

I think by now most everybody knows that Mickey Thompson's little 421SD powered '62 Tempest won the A/FX class at the Winter Nats & at Indy, in '62.

There were several other '62 model nat record holders & class winners. Don Gay picked up several big class wins in his A/S '62.

[oldskool]

OK, for '63, Pontiac still had the 421SD engine plus "Swiss Cheese" frames, & other lightweight parts.

Also had the 421SD powered '63 Tempest/Lemans A/FX cars. One of these again won A/FX @ the Winter Nats.

Some of these cars eventually ran in the "Modified Production", Gas, & other classes.

Jim Wangers won the B/FX class @ Indy, in a 421SD Cat.

Some big cars again ran in some of the other Top Stock classes.

And, there were '63 big Pontiacs that ran lower classes.

It was the last year of major factory support, & the last year of the 421SD. I see it as a sort of end of Pontiac's "Glory Days". The factory supported Mopars & Fords took over. Most of the top Pontiac racers switched brands.

For the next 10 years or so, it would be mostly up to independent & dealer sponsored Pontiac racers to do the drag racing.

[oldskool]

Of course, the big Pontiac news in '64 was the GTO !

The age of the Musclecar had arrived. And, just as you'd expect, independent racers & Pontiac dealers took 'em to the drag strips.

Posting a pic of the Gay Pontiac cars & hauler. They ran lots of Pontiacs, thru the years. This pic shows 3 cars: #655 '62 A/S 421SD Cat, which Don drove, #656 A/MP '63 Tempest wagon, & #657 B/S '64 GTO, which Roy drove. Don't how the GTO ran. Anybody know ?

Here's the link to a site I found which shows pics of a model of the Gay B/S '64 GTO. Also has a small write-up about the cars.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/t...k-pontiac-gto/

Don't really know how most '64 GTO's did at most local tracks. Can't find evidence that they did much on the national stage. Most I see pics of ran B/S. Don't think they could have been real competitive in that class, on a big stage.

But, I don't know. So, if some of you guys know of some '64 GTO's that did really well in Stock or SS, please post that info, & pics, if possible.

I also found pics of two '64 big Pontiac record holders. It has been pointed out that the Alaskan did NOT have a 421 engine, even tho the caption says it did. That's easy to believe, since it is marked in J/S, in the pic I have. But, I'm not familiar with the car, at all.

[oldskool]

'65 was the 2nd year of the GTO. I think they looked a lot better. I liked the stacked headlights, the hood, & the rear better. The '65 is my 2nd favorite year of the Goat.

Once again, Packer Pontiac sponsored a GTO Stocker, as did quite a few other Pontiac dealers, I'm sure.

Words on the Knafel '65 GTO seems to indicate that both Bill Abraham & Arlen Vanke drove the car some, with good success. I assume this is the case.

In '65, Pontiac also offered a big car 2+2. Top option was a Tri-power 421. But, this 421 was NOT a 421SD. Not even close. These later 421's were street friendly. The 421SD - not so much. It was designed to make power for racing.

Jack Matyas drove a big '65 Ragtop to the '72 Summer Nats G/SA class win. At some point, he named the car "Chieftain".

[oldskool]

In Pontiac circles, '66 is known as the last year of the 389, the last year of the 421, & the last year of Tri-Power. I also think of it as the last year a GTO was limited to a 2-speed, if auto trans equipped.

The '66 Tri-Power is said to be the best of any year. Therefore, the '66 Tri-Power GTO's ran quite well.

The Knafel '66 Tri-Power GTO car, which I call the "Trophy Car", MAY have been the winningest '66 GTO ever. Don't know. Knafel actually ran at least 2 of these cars that looked similar. One had a lighter colored bottom, with a darker colored top, the other with a darker bottom & lighter top. Don't know if they ran identical set-ups, or not. They did haul 'em on the same rig, as a couple of the pics below depict.

Royal Pontiac also fielded at least one of the '66 Goats. Once again, I assume that many Pontiac dealers, across the country, also fielded, or at least sponsored a '66 GTO.

Don't know when the last competitive '66 Tri-Power GTO was active. Anybody know ?

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

In Pontiac circles, '66 is known as the last year of the 389, the last year of the 421, & the last year of Tri-Power. I also think of it as the last year a GTO was limited to a 2-speed, if auto trans equipped.

The '66 Tri-Power is said to be the best of any year. Therefore, the '66 Tri-Power GTO's ran quite well.

The Knafel '66 Tri-Power GTO car, which I call the "Trophy Car", MAY have been the winningest '66 GTO ever. Don't know. Knafel actually ran at least 2 of these cars that looked similar. One had a lighter colored bottom, with a darker colored top, the other with a darker bottom & lighter top. Don't know if they ran identical set-ups, or not. They did haul 'em on the same rig, as a couple of the pics below depict.

Royal Pontiac also fielded at least one of the '66 Goats. Once again, I assume that many Pontiac dealers, across the country, also fielded, or at least sponsored a '66 GTO.

Don't know when the last competitive '66 Tri-Power GTO was active. Anybody know ?

One of the best is pictured here.The CT. car of Gaudreau and Kovitch. Bob dominated the class at Indy , only to be tossed for a suspension violation, bringing in arch rival Loyed Woodland... 12.50's was damn fast at that time.

[oldskool]

There were some MAJOR changes for Pontiac, with the introduction of the '67 models. Many of these changes would affect Pontiac drag racing for many years to come, even to this day.

(1) The 1st 400 cube engine.

(2) The 1st 428 cube engine.

(3) The 1st Firebird.

(4) The 1st TH400 in a GTO.

(5) The 1st Q-jet carb on a Pontiac V8.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I haven't been able to find pics, or other evidence, of large numbers of '67 GTO drag cars. I think Mark posted pics of some.

But, I've found several pics of '67 Bird drag cars from the early years. There were probably lots of others, around the country.

Because the 428 was available only in the big cars, there were apparently very few 428 powered cars on the tracks. I suppose that a '69 GP was about the sportiest body a 428 ever came in.

Because of the current GT rules, in Super Stock, the 428 is now used in several strong GT cars. If somebody wanted to run a '67 428 powered Stocker, IMO, it could possibly be made competitive, with it's current 350hp factor.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

2 of the '67 Bird Stockers I'll mention have done real well running a 400, with a current 338hp factor.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

Therefore, at only 12hp higher, the 350hp rated '67 428 just MIGHT be competitive. Yes, the big '67 Pontiacs are heavy. BUT, there have been quite a few heavy cars & wagons that were very competitive.

NHRA allows the 428 to use the same 670 heads, with the same 65cc chamber size as the '67 400.

One indication that nobody has tried to run a serious 428 powered Stocker, in recent years, is the fact that NHRA does not list any legal replacement pistons for it.

After looking at the weight of possible '67 428 powered Stockers, I was surprised to see that several models would have a minimum weight, with driver, of less than 4000 lbs. That's not too much heavier than some later GTO's & 2nd gen Birds.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2000

So, looks to me like the only thing that might slow the big cars down is that they produce more wind resistance. Don't know how much that would slow a car down, as compared to a '67 Bird body, with exactly the same engine.

But all this is just my thoughts. Doubt anybody will ever build a '67 428 powered Stocker.