Automatic Horsepower Factoring System

[Dave Ribeiro]

Byron,

I agree that no-HP should be given til that engine is torn down and found legal, not just the 1.40 under but any time someone gets factored they need to be torn down......This is the only way to be sure that the HP is Justified, not just add HP on monday because someone went too fast...This needs to happen everytime more HP is added to a combo... Dave,

[Bruce Noland]

The cold hard facts about this horsepower business. nhra is not going to spend any extra money on Sportsman racing. They have saved 100 K + by parting ways with Len and installing the SRAC and still haven't filled the tech staff at Glendora from what I'm told.

Sure, it would be great if they had the tech staff in place to check the weather and do on-the-spot tear downs if someone pops up with a -1.40 run but it doesn't look like that will ever happen.

I've also heard about a new calculation that may be added to the AHFS. That is, hit a combination if the combination is more than a tenth faster than the over all class average. It's just another band aid for a broken system. The SRAC members have to be impartial and consider what is best for the sport.

nhra has accepted +30 horsepower in changes to many combinations. They should do something clean like lowering the indexes by .30 to match the changes they have accepted. Then start tearing down cars if some racers are out there thumping the hell out of their competition. Flag those who are flying and plan a tear down party for them.

I have only seen one unanimous poll on the Internet, so we shouldn't expect all of us to agree on a contentious issue like the AHFS.

The AHFS should be a top priority of the SRAC and they should also seek general oversight of the AHFS; which includes a serious review of horsepower adjustments by all Stock, Super Stock members of the SRAC.

[Lynn A McCarty]

SS Engine Guy,

I agree with most of what you said. Thanks for the explanation.

Weren't we discussing AHFS and heads up? What would you do to address the after market casting situation, bogus combos, bogus intake runner cc list, an ineffective AHFS?

Believe me it could be done. All it takes is the courage and the willingness to do so. I thought that was our talking points. If we could all agree on certain issues, maybe these steering committees would take action?

If we never get anything accomplished, it shouldn't be because we didn't try.

[Dick Butler]

Lynn, CIC for Stk or SS .

[SS Engine Guy]

Thanks for those that took the time to read my long winded post. I am going to look at some numbers and see if I can come up with a suggestion. I really don't think there is one answer to the situation. And it probably won't please everyone. (or maybe anyone).

Part of what I am going to look at is the difference in cubic inches vs. et. vs, factored hp. vs. makers (Ford, GM, Mopar) within several SS classes and see if any correlation exists. This may apply or may not in Stock eliminator. It may offer a solution or it may only cloud the issues even more. The CIC suggestion may apply here, only in a somewhat different way than what is used in comp.
The problems that the AHFS is supposed to address weren't created in a day. I wish that someone had the answer that would make everyone happy, boost attendence, cause younger racers to get interested and migrate towards our catagories, and in general, make this all the fun that it used to be. Might even collect some sponsorship for our classes along the way. This can't be impossible. It will probably be hard but nothing worth having ever comes easy in life. I personally think that the AHFS is detrimental to our sport.

[bsa633]

Currently looking in a dragster from 86(cajun souvenir iisue) the indexes were almost a tenth lower back then,they lowered them another .1 a couple years later(+.1 extra for A) the National Records were about .7-.8 higher then...we can bitch forever about the parts and pieces... legal or not...but here we are..and the thing is we cant keep adding HP/weight when cars get faster like the system works now...there should be some room for cars to get faster...or we will need AAA and AAAA in the future...

[Dick Butler]

First the indexes can be lowered to make up for all the upgrades. Example start with .5. This still leaves room for credible early racers to race.
There are too many motors currently possible to run to attack this one at a time. I think using punishment for running fast is a killer on Class racing and this Kills interest in our S and SS racing.
One motor could be used as a gauge of hp. Use it and its performance to factor others but there would need to be a decrease in minor variations. There are TOO many 350 Chevy motors to use. Someone always finds another unfairly factored motor to run. I think limiting the combinations would be a good start.
There are too many Classes which allow people to hide a bogus combination also. Limit the numbers of class breaks and consolidate too...

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by SS Engine Guy

Thanks for those that took the time to read my long winded post. I am going to look at some numbers and see if I can come up with a suggestion. I really don't think there is one answer to the situation. And it probably won't please everyone. (or maybe anyone).

Part of what I am going to look at is the difference in cubic inches vs. et. vs, factored hp. vs. makers (Ford, GM, Mopar) within several SS classes and see if any correlation exists. This may apply or may not in Stock eliminator. It may offer a solution or it may only cloud the issues even more. The CIC suggestion may apply here, only in a somewhat different way than what is used in comp.
The problems that the AHFS is supposed to address weren't created in a day. I wish that someone had the answer that would make everyone happy, boost attendence, cause younger racers to get interested and migrate towards our catagories, and in general, make this all the fun that it used to be. Might even collect some sponsorship for our classes along the way. This can't be impossible. It will probably be hard but nothing worth having ever comes easy in life. I personally think that the AHFS is detrimental to our sport.

Here are some good equations: (not perfect, but good correlations)

HP(dyno) = 0.285 x CFM x 8(cyl)
0.240 for average bracket engine
0.250 for very good bracket engine
0.285 average factor for SS engine (low compression/high cubic inches a bit lower)
0.300 for high compression comp style engine
0.310 for very good comp engine

funny, where is the cubic inches in that equation?

Cylinder Head Choke Equation
CSA(min) = bore x bore x stroke x RPM x .00353/614(fps)
CSA = minimum cross sectional area of intake port
Choke = point at which velocity impedes horsepower

None of these are perfect, but we have been modeling them for the last few years and they make a lot of sense.

Using cubic inches in Super Stock isnt a good idea. There is a reason Hemis make over 900HP and 455 Olds make 600. If you look at the Choke equation it will tell you why.

[SS Engine Guy]

Originally Posted by SS Engine Guy

Part of what I am going to look at is the difference in cubic inches vs. et. vs, factored hp. vs. makers (Ford, GM, Mopar) within several SS classes and see if any correlation exists.

I agree that cubic inches may not be the best indicator of rating todays S/SS engines.

Don't have an answer yet. I'd like to see the bell curves applied to a few popular classes also.

[lca1971]

SS Engine Guy,

I'm new to the stock/super stock type racing. Just started building a L/S mustang and wanted to add my .02 cent's. I saw in one of your post that you wanted to allow boosted cars in the mix! To bring in youner guy's. Are you wanting to allow toyota's, honda's and the like in the classes? I think that would be very hard to do. The only reason I say this is I ran a 170ci Toyota eng in my 88 Mustang. With a stock long block, almost stock cam's, injectors and a turbo change this eng made 837hp at the tires. This type of combo would kill any stock eli car and most of the SS cars. So I don't think it would work. Epecially with the lack of knowledge of most tech guy's when it comes to computers. The only reason I didn't make the move sooner from "Street Car" racing was the fact I didn't understand all the factoring and indexing. I think that if the younger guy's could get help to understand this there would be alot of them that would want to race this type of racing. I still don't fully understand most of the stuff, but its becomeing clearer.

Thanks,
Chris Atkinson