Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator)

laura Parker · 04-19-2008, 09:56 PM

I see where Bret McFarland is running A/SA at the Indy points race. It looks like it's the same car he has been running in A stick for many years. I'd like to know what he thinks after this weekend. This is a discussion that I have had with many of my stick guys for years. The one thing that we always agree upon is that we disagree. The converters slip for 1300ft and the clutch's lock up after 100 ft. I have always felt it must be worth a least a tenth. Barry

Jesse Knapp · 04-19-2008, 10:10 PM

I agree with that Barry. Guess I called it drag or holding back, but I believe convertors slip somewhat all the way down track. Once the stick launches, and I assume there is some tire spin there, it's a direct connection. My opinion, correct me if I am wrong. This is mainly why I think a stick could be quicker, provided the driver is deadly. Seems like the lower hp cars would or could widen the gap. This is a very interesting topic. Jesse

Alan Roehrich · 04-20-2008, 08:32 AM

I could have sworn Bret's stick car was a 67 or 68. The car he has at Indy is a 69. If I remember correctly, Bret blew the engine in the stick car Saturday night at Gainesville.

Alan Roehrich · 04-20-2008, 08:40 AM

A good torque converter multiplies torque at between 2:1 and 2.25:1, approximately, at the RPM it flashes to, and the torque multiplication begins to taper off as engine RPM exceeds that flash RPM, the more the engine RPM exceeds the flash RPM, the less the converter multiplies torque. Slippage is the price for this torque multiplication. If you work with the converter company and both of you do your job well, the slippage should probably get down to around 4% to 8% (on a higher HP car, some low HP cars never get close to a low slippage percentage). As you go from flash RPM to your peak RPM, slippage decreases. You can never completely eliminate slippage, but you can get close.

Jesse Knapp · 04-21-2008, 12:16 AM

Looking through the indexes I saw the sticks .05, .10, or .15 lower than automatics. Exceptions are AA, L, M, and T stock each having the same indexes. The AA category hasn't been around long to be adjusted, but what about the rest? Why did NHRA set the indexes quicker, for the most part, for the stick cars. Record in A/S is amazingly 9.88 (Steve Ficacci) and with a 396 engine. I know the 68 is a lighter car but has any A/SA cars gone this quick? Is the stick the culpret here, lol? Jesse

04-19-2008, 09:56 PM	#1
laura Parker Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator) I see where Bret McFarland is running A/SA at the Indy points race. It looks like it's the same car he has been running in A stick for many years. I'd like to know what he thinks after this weekend. This is a discussion that I have had with many of my stick guys for years. The one thing that we always agree upon is that we disagree. The converters slip for 1300ft and the clutch's lock up after 100 ft. I have always felt it must be worth a least a tenth. Barry

04-19-2008, 10:10 PM	#2
Jesse Knapp Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator) I agree with that Barry. Guess I called it drag or holding back, but I believe convertors slip somewhat all the way down track. Once the stick launches, and I assume there is some tire spin there, it's a direct connection. My opinion, correct me if I am wrong. This is mainly why I think a stick could be quicker, provided the driver is deadly. Seems like the lower hp cars would or could widen the gap. This is a very interesting topic. Jesse __________________ Jesse Knapp 4899 STK, SS

04-20-2008, 08:32 AM	#3
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,141 Likes: 1,621 Liked 1,936 Times in 436 Posts	Re: Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator) I could have sworn Bret's stick car was a 67 or 68. The car he has at Indy is a 69. If I remember correctly, Bret blew the engine in the stick car Saturday night at Gainesville. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

04-20-2008, 08:40 AM	#4
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,141 Likes: 1,621 Liked 1,936 Times in 436 Posts	Re: Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator) A good torque converter multiplies torque at between 2:1 and 2.25:1, approximately, at the RPM it flashes to, and the torque multiplication begins to taper off as engine RPM exceeds that flash RPM, the more the engine RPM exceeds the flash RPM, the less the converter multiplies torque. Slippage is the price for this torque multiplication. If you work with the converter company and both of you do your job well, the slippage should probably get down to around 4% to 8% (on a higher HP car, some low HP cars never get close to a low slippage percentage). As you go from flash RPM to your peak RPM, slippage decreases. You can never completely eliminate slippage, but you can get close. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

04-21-2008, 12:16 AM	#5
Jesse Knapp Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 109 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stick verses Automatic (Stock Eliminator) Looking through the indexes I saw the sticks .05, .10, or .15 lower than automatics. Exceptions are AA, L, M, and T stock each having the same indexes. The AA category hasn't been around long to be adjusted, but what about the rest? Why did NHRA set the indexes quicker, for the most part, for the stick cars. Record in A/S is amazingly 9.88 (Steve Ficacci) and with a 396 engine. I know the 68 is a lighter car but has any A/SA cars gone this quick? Is the stick the culpret here, lol? Jesse __________________ Jesse Knapp 4899 STK, SS

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