The Fall of Saigon...The End

[Alan Roehrich]

My problem is not the military itself, at least below the "Joint Chiefs" and the Pentagon. Quite the opposite. My problem is with the government, including the "Joint Chiefs".


If the military were used judiciously, as intended by the Founding Fathers, and as the military should be used, as in, once the military is engaged, it practices almost completely unrestricted warfare, and has extremely few limits with regards to rules of engagement, then either Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq do not see the U.S. military, or those wars are over much more quickly, with much higher enemy casualties, and with absolute victory.


Men go into combat, and if they survive, they are forever altered. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of how the battle is prosecuted, those in it are NEVER the same. As such, we owe those we send into those battles. We owe them the ability and the requisite support to win. We owe them absolute victory. And we owe them the very best unending support for the rest of their lives for the price that they pay for the service that they give. Either give them ALL of that, or don't ever send them to battle, or simply discharge them, and send them home to do something else with their lives.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

My problem is not the military itself, at least below the "Joint Chiefs" and the Pentagon. Quite the opposite. My problem is with the government, including the "Joint Chiefs".


If the military were used judiciously, as intended by the Founding Fathers, and as the military should be used, as in, once the military is engaged, it practices almost completely unrestricted warfare, and has extremely few limits with regards to rules of engagement, then either Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq do not see the U.S. military, or those wars are over much more quickly, with much higher enemy casualties, and with absolute victory.


Men go into combat, and if they survive, they are forever altered. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of how the battle is prosecuted, those in it are NEVER the same. As such, we owe those we send into those battles. We owe them the ability and the requisite support to win. We owe them absolute victory. And we owe them the very best unending support for the rest of their lives for the price that they pay for the service that they give. Either give them ALL of that, or don't ever send them to battle, or simply discharge them, and send them home to do something else with their lives.

I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life as a Service Officer for the American Legion, the Disabled American Veterans and as Nevada Veterans Advocate insuring those lives that have been changed are treated and compensated for their injuries. Since the PACT Act was approved on 1 Jan 2023, I am averaging 10 to 12 cases a week. The VA has received over 2 million claims since approval. You might want to take a look at what the Congressional Budget Office proposed to the House. Cutting compensation to veterans and spouses, terminating 81,000 VA employees, which in turn would close VA facilities. It is not “thank for your service” it’s “** for your service”.

When you talk about the differences between a war, a police action or minor conflict. I can speak only about Marines and how they react to being on the pointy end of the spear, we care about each other and know our mission is to “close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver”. If the Commandant of the Marine Corps told me to shoot my grandmother, she could standby because there would be rounds coming down range. Enjoy the freedoms that these young men and women have provided dedicating their lives in maintaining it.

[Randy Wells]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life as a Service Officer for the American Legion, the Disabled American Veterans and as Nevada Veterans Advocate insuring those lives that have been changed are treated and compensated for their injuries. Since the PACT Act was approved on 1 Jan 2023, I am averaging 10 to 12 cases a week. The VA has received over 2 million claims since approval. You might want to take a look at what the Congressional Budget Office proposed to the House. Cutting compensation to veterans and spouses, terminating 81,000 VA employees, which in turn would close VA facilities. It is not “thank for your service” it’s “** for your service”.

When you talk about the differences between a war, a police action or minor conflict. I can speak only about Marines and how they react to being on the pointy end of the spear, we care about each other and know our mission is to “close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver”. If the Commandant of the Marine Corps told me to shoot my grandmother, she could standby because there would be rounds coming down range. Enjoy the freedoms that these young men and women have provided dedicating their lives in maintaining it.

Luckily Gandma has the 2nd amendment and she can shoot back.

Randy Wells
I/S 5628

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Randy Wells

Luckily Gandma has the 2nd amendment and she can shoot back.

Randy Wells
I/S 5628

True! No issue with the 2nd Amendment, they do need open up HIPPA laws as part of the background checks.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

True! No issue with the 2nd Amendment, they do need open up HIPPA laws as part of the background checks.

By all means, there should be penalties for those who fail to disclose to the proper authorities that an individual is a threat to others due to psychological disorders. Including government and military offices. If a person is separated from the military because they're considered a hazard when armed, due to a psychological disorder, it should be reported as an adjudication of mental defect.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

By all means, there should be penalties for those who fail to disclose to the proper authorities that an individual is a threat to others due to psychological disorders. Including government and military offices. If a person is separated from the military because they're considered a hazard when armed, due to a psychological disorder, it should be reported as an adjudication of mental defect.

The DD214 members 4 copy discloses type of discharge and the reenlistment code i.e., medical discharge with personality disorder. Unfortunately most cases of PTSD are not treated in the military and not recognized until after discharge.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

The DD214 members 4 copy discloses type of discharge and the reenlistment code i.e., medical discharge with personality disorder. Unfortunately most cases of PTSD are not treated in the military and not recognized until after discharge.

Understood. It's a damned CRIME, not just a shame, that PTSD isn't properly diagnosed, and treated, for life, before and after discharge. It's a debt owed on behalf of a grateful nation. We should damned sure be spending more money, properly, on getting these people the help that they so desperately need, and so richly deserve. Unfortunately, it seems the criminals in our government would rather hand the next of kin a flag, and say "on behalf of a grateful nation", with their fingers crossed behind their back.


As far as it goes, my point was the shooter this past weekend was discharged, fairly quickly, on the basis of apparently severe mental health issues, And it was apparently not reported, he passed multiple background checks. The same was true of the Texas church shooter a few years back. He was discharged by the Air Force, if memory serves correct, for mental health problems and spousal abuse. Yet, he too passed background checks.


I am NOT singling out veterans, by any stretch. My point is, the background check system is not working at all. There are literally people under surveillance by the federal government, for their potential as a spree shooter, with known mental health problems, and yet that same federal government clears them to purchase firearms. The idiot who shot up the grocery store in New York, the clown in Colorado, among others, were literally being watched. But still bought firearms legally. Then there's the woman just down the road in Nashville who killed several at the Covenant School. She had been treated for a decade for mental illness, and had multiple suicide attempts. Yet she bought firearms, passing background checks.



The system has failed. Almost completely. The FBI, etc., are apparently too busy playing politics to actually investigate anything correctly, their parent agency, the DoJ is just as bad. And then there's the BATFE, too busy trying to turn law abiding citizens, by writing de facto laws, outside the legislative branch, into felons.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life as a Service Officer for the American Legion, the Disabled American Veterans and as Nevada Veterans Advocate insuring those lives that have been changed are treated and compensated for their injuries. Since the PACT Act was approved on 1 Jan 2023, I am averaging 10 to 12 cases a week. The VA has received over 2 million claims since approval. You might want to take a look at what the Congressional Budget Office proposed to the House. Cutting compensation to veterans and spouses, terminating 81,000 VA employees, which in turn would close VA facilities. It is not “thank for your service” it’s “** for your service”.

When you talk about the differences between a war, a police action or minor conflict. I can speak only about Marines and how they react to being on the pointy end of the spear, we care about each other and know our mission is to “close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver”. If the Commandant of the Marine Corps told me to shoot my grandmother, she could standby because there would be rounds coming down range. Enjoy the freedoms that these young men and women have provided dedicating their lives in maintaining it.

Again, I see the government as morally bankrupt, and I have no use for bureaucrats and politicians who cut benefits to veterans.

we waste enough tax revenue on entitlements to assure every veteran a lifetime of the best possible care.


As stated, I'm not commenting on the grunts. I'm commenting on the government, including the "Joint Chiefs". The differentiation assigned to various engagements is a matter of government declaration, and government policy, not of danger to or effectiveness of the individual personnel. Sure, you WANT to close with and destroy the enemy. Unfortunately, the government prevents that all too often, while still sending you to be shot at. And that is the problem.While acknowledging that the statement about granny is hyperbole, we'll assume that you'd consider whether or not that's a lawful order.