New Classes in Stock AAA/SA, AAA/S and FS/AAA

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The one pound weight breaks and rolling the FWD cars into the appropriate classes creates the smaller number of classes, and the other desired results.


.

Alan the facts are..there are no appropriate RWD classes for the bulk of of the current crop .Most are centered around DF/S and EF/S ,which are low 17's to low 16 second cars.
The bottom RWD class is W, which is a mid 16 index ,but most can run in the15's.
V/S(A) is for V6's or 4 cylinder combos. The good one run in the 14's
How would you equalize that situation? Lower the FWD hp's ? How would they get enough weight out to speed them up?
Raise the V and W indexes, where there are already second under cars?
All I see is a whole bunch of grief for guys that aren't bothering anyone, and trying to race on a limited budget. I say leave the FWD guys alone .They are the only entry level cars left in NHRA class racing.

Now ,.if you want to combine say, D and E, and F and G... go ahead ,but it will end up as a net loss for NHRA ,when the newer guys have a heads up run , every other round, and then stop going to Divisionals ;-)

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I say leave the FWD guys alone .They are the only entry level cars left in NHRA class racing. ;-)

Like, like,like and the absolute truth!

[rseibenick]

The FWD cars went from 8 diff weight breaks , stick and auto for 16 diff. classes in 2003 to 6 combined classes now in 2023. We have already helped to reduce the # of classes in stock. .

[SDmopar]

They should just avg the stick and auto HP numbers and run them together.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Alan the facts are..there are no appropriate RWD classes for the bulk of of the current crop .Most are centered around DF/S and EF/S ,which are low 17's to low 16 second cars.
The bottom RWD class is W, which is a mid 16 index ,but most can run in the15's.
V/S(A) is for V6's or 4 cylinder combos. The good one run in the 14's
How would you equalize that situation? Lower the FWD hp's ? How would they get enough weight out to speed them up?
Raise the V and W indexes, where there are already second under cars?
All I see is a whole bunch of grief for guys that aren't bothering anyone, and trying to race on a limited budget. I say leave the FWD guys alone .They are the only entry level cars left in NHRA class racing.

Now ,.if you want to combine say, D and E, and F and G... go ahead ,but it will end up as a net loss for NHRA ,when the newer guys have a heads up run , every other round, and then stop going to Divisionals ;-)

Are they truly "entry level"? Ie., are they a gateway for people looking to get into class racing, learn, and move up? Or are they a protected special class, for people to play in the deep end of the pool, with water wings, instead of learning to swim?




Look, I don't mind FWD, it's not my cup of tea, but variety is the spice of life.


The true concept of a dime rocket is really cool. The idea of an underfactored combination, where you can buy the car for a low price, you go buy used wheels and tires, cheap headers, freshen the engine, build a nice budget transmission with a cheap converter, throw in a gear on a spool, and go run 0.80+ under, that's frikkin awesome. If you're not hiding from heads up runs, even better.



But when I read these posts you guys make, the FWD guys don't want heads up races (but Billy wants to make the RWD stick guys race the RWD automatic guys heads up), they want to deep stage, and they want the "first or worst" rule rescinded. They want to buy their car for under $1250 on marketplace. They don't want to buy high end pistons, rings, camshafts, clutches, converters, etc. But they want a "level playing field" that suits them, to race guys who make the investment.




Are we talking about NHRA Stock Eliminator here?


Or are we talking about NHRA Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Eliminator?


As usual, the conversation is not a conversation, or a discussion. It's a dead end.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Are they truly "entry level"? Ie., are they a gateway for people looking to get into class racing, learn, and move up? Or are they a protected special class, for people to play in the deep end of the pool, with water wings, instead of learning to swim?




Look, I don't mind FWD, it's not my cup of tea, but variety is the spice of life.


The true concept of a dime rocket is really cool. The idea of an underfactored combination, where you can buy the car for a low price, you go buy used wheels and tires, cheap headers, freshen the engine, build a nice budget transmission with a cheap converter, throw in a gear on a spool, and go run 0.80+ under, that's frikkin awesome. If you're not hiding from heads up runs, even better.



But when I read these posts you guys make, the FWD guys don't want heads up races (but Billy wants to make the RWD stick guys race the RWD automatic guys heads up), they want to deep stage, and they want the "first or worst" rule rescinded. They want to buy their car for under $1250 on marketplace. They don't want to buy high end pistons, rings, camshafts, clutches, converters, etc. But they want a "level playing field" that suits them, to race guys who make the investment.




Are we talking about NHRA Stock Eliminator here?


Or are we talking about NHRA Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Eliminator?


As usual, the conversation is not a conversation, or a discussion. It's a dead end.

Hey, tuff guy! Just where do you think the next generation is coming from! IF there is going to BE a next generation! Do you think that they're going to just hit up their Daddys up for a $100K car?
Yes they're "entry level" but not for the reasons that you think. You can go to any shop in the country and buy all of the pieces to put together a big-block Camaro and if you've got a little bit of tuning talent you can get it to run pretty well OR you can buy the tuning talent just like you bought all of the pieces for the car! They're "entry level" because you can't BUY ANYTHING for them, you've got to make the stuff and improvise.

You apparently DO "mind" FWD having said what you just said.

The "idea" of a "Dime Rocket" is (for me) to keep people in this game. Some time, you should get off of your "safe" combos (solid-lifter big-blocks and 327/275s) and try something difficult like a 307 Chevy or a 301 Pontiac (or an easy FWD combo) and see how that works for you.
I could be racing some of the combos that I have out in my big garage but I choose to spend my time trying to show potential Racers how they can compete and be competitive on a budget. But I guess that if I had done some of this stuff and told the readers how expensive it was going to be then you'd be OK with it?

Where did you see anything about FWD Racers not wanting heads-up runs? I wrote in one of my "build" threads that I hope that there would be 20 of those cars built. And I still do! And where exactly did I say that I want Stick combos running heads-up against Auto combos? I said that combining sticks and autos would make more common sense than combining RWDs and FWDs. Don't put words in my mouth!
What business is it of yours where I buy my car or what I paid for it and whether I buy "high end" parts (that don't exist anyway) or not! If the combo is in the guide and is built within the rules (probably more so than most BB and 327/275 Camaros) then we have a "level playing field". You can "make the investment" however you would like.

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money but seeing as we're talking about "NHRA Stock Eliminator" here, please show me how and why "Stock Eliminator" heads and intakes are worth so much today? Why do the indexes need to be moved to keep these higher HP combos from having to slow down to keep from getting HP hits? Why do these higher HP combos suddenly "need" aftermarket heads and carbs and blocks that aren't available to the lower HP combos and FWDs?

It seems from where I'm sitting that you are one of the Racers wanting "diversity, equity and inclusion" here. The underclassmen aren't the ones shouting for all of the change! We just want a FAIR place to race!

[Alan Roehrich]

Thanks for the laughs.

[Mike Gray]

Time for more popcorn!

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Thanks for the laughs.

I'm glad you liked it but you haven't responded to any of the questions or statements so I'll just guess that you're talking out your *****.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

I'm glad you liked it but you haven't responded to any of the questions or statements so I'll just guess that you're talking out your *****.

No, Billy, you're wrong. I've made my argument. I've actually spoken to all of your points, it's quite obvious that you choose not to see it. I haven't resorted to insults, or smart remarks. At this point, the discussion has devolved into what it always does, and there's no need to continue, it's obviously pointless. You can take it for whatever you think it is worth. You can even think that you "won". At this point, I couldn't care less. I have work to do.