Heads up class clarification

[Glenn Briglio]

Originally Posted by Doug Hoven

No, not even in what is considered a class "combo" would a stick and auto car run heads up. If there is only one car in some classes, they run a class "combo," which is heads up, handicapped start based off the indexes of the respective cars. This can be very good fun to watch. As for the other questions you have, on page 1 of section 11A of the rulebook it states "Category is based on a handicap start using the NHRA index
system; breakout rules apply." I have not "mastered" my way around the rulebook, but I'm sure it is spelled out in there somewhere. Also being part of the "slow car" against the index club, take special care to notice your potential first round opponents between qualifying runs. I've noticed a pattern in D1 of where other "F/SA" cars in my case usually end up after being 2/2 for getting a heads up race first round. Personally, I'd rather bracket race a "hitter" first round than have a heads up run with someone that has me covered by half a second, but that's just me.

What about the FWD classes that run stick and automatic in the same class ?

[Doug Hoven]

Originally Posted by Glenn Briglio

What about the FWD classes that run stick and automatic in the same class ?

Billy is going to be disappointed when he see's that I forgot about him. I'm not sure about factory stock, being that they don't have separate classes for stick/auto either, but FWD do run together. FWD stick cars must add 100lb to the class weight to make it "even."

[Dan Bennett]

There a lot of procedures not mentioned in the rulebook.

When I was writing for Super Stock and researching the nitrous issue, I was lucky enough to come across something I'd never seen. It was an internal NHRA book published for NHRA officials/employees and was never released to the membership. It wasn't on the production level of the rulebook, but just a bunch of typed pages on normal paper. I can't remember if it was bound or just stapled together.

It contained things like what you're wondering about along with a lot more things that covered a lot of race and tech etc, procedures that at the time were what we were all used to but weren't in the rulebook.

I can't remember the title of the thing though something on the order of General Procedures comes to mind. Sadly. it disappeared during a move a long time ago. Wish I still had it and I honestly don't know if such a thing still exists.

[Adub464Q]

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

There a lot of procedures not mentioned in the rulebook.

When I was writing for Super Stock and researching the nitrous issue, I was lucky enough to come across something I'd never seen. It was an internal NHRA book published for NHRA officials/employees and was never released to the membership. It wasn't on the production level of the rulebook, but just a bunch of typed pages on normal paper. I can't remember if it was bound or just stapled together.

It contained things like what you're wondering about along with a lot more things that covered a lot of race and tech etc, procedures that at the time were what we were all used to but weren't in the rulebook.

I can't remember the title of the thing though something on the order of General Procedures comes to mind. Sadly. it disappeared during a move a long time ago. Wish I still had it and I honestly don't know if such a thing still exists.

This is the tech policies and procedure manual, I do not believe it exists anymore within Tech in my discussions. There was an initiative to write most of the manuals content into the rulebook. I could be wrong and it still exists, but I believe that Tim White wanted to do away with the manual and only have the rulebook.

There is a policy manual that exists in the tower of races for the race/division director.

[JP1738]

Originally Posted by Adub464Q

This is the tech policies and procedure manual, I do not believe it exists anymore within Tech in my discussions. There was an initiative to write most of the manuals content into the rulebook. I could be wrong and it still exists, but I believe that Tim White wanted to do away with the manual and only have the rulebook.

There is a policy manual that exists in the tower of races for the race/division director.

I wish it wasn't shrouded in secrecy. I think racers should have access to that information too. A little bit of transparency goes a long way. Also, if you ever wanted to get into class racing, without a knowledgeable person that's already participating, you wouldn't be able to learn squat.

[JP1738]

I went to look at national record related rules when I stumbled upon the answer to this question. This is Section 2, Page 8 "Dialing under the Index"

"DIALING UNDER THE INDEX
Contestants in Super Stock and Stock have the option of
dialing under their class’ assigned index. It is the responsibility
of each contestant to place the selected time on the
windshield and tower-side window prior to each round of
competition. Dial-unders may be changed between rounds,
including a rerun situation. All contestants not choosing to dial
under will automatically be handicapped on the basis of their
assigned class index. In cases where two cars of the same
class are paired, the race is conducted on a heads-up basis,
regardless of any dialing-under considerations, and breakout
rulings do not apply"

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by JP1738

I went to look at national record related rules when I stumbled upon the answer to this question. This is Section 2, Page 8 "Dialing under the Index"

"DIALING UNDER THE INDEX
Contestants in Super Stock and Stock have the option of
dialing under their class’ assigned index. It is the responsibility
of each contestant to place the selected time on the
windshield and tower-side window prior to each round of
competition. Dial-unders may be changed between rounds,
including a rerun situation. All contestants not choosing to dial
under will automatically be handicapped on the basis of their
assigned class index. In cases where two cars of the same
class are paired, the race is conducted on a heads-up basis,
regardless of any dialing-under considerations, and breakout
rulings do not apply"

Adding in 1 cautionary note here: Each combo within each class, has a designated minimum wt to reach after each of those runs are completed and you arrive at the scale to weigh the car and driver. (So, that stick adds 100 lbs. Is already added in to the equation), but that class race is not over until that winner receives the thumbs up at the scales and fuel ck.

Do not just drive on by and head back to the pits, because if you lose and drive on by, you missed your chance to get weighed in and fuel ck yourself.

Just a cautionary tale, as I have seen it happen. Class racing does not end always when the win light comes on, it ends when those 2 thumbs up happen.

It is an interesting discussion that the OP opened up, and just attempting to be thorough here. As I am not one to junk up a line at the scales and fuel ck, (if it was close, and there is a Wally on the line), there is only 1 shot at those 2 thumbs up, so look over my opponent and you will find me waiting nearby waiting for your smile at each, so I can give my congrats to you (or I can also get mine weighed and ckd).

I will not divulge the name (may the lord rest his departed soul), O.C.I.R. early 80's sometime, a certain class racer I knew won a round during a certain heads up class race, passed the scales absolutely dead nuts on the minimum wt., passed fuel ck., then drove about 12', and was stopped by an NHRA Div. Official, and he wanted to take a look see under the drivers seat...(Driver still in the seat), and oh my, there was a loose flywheel/flexplate, an embarrassing moment to be sure, and lucky for his opponent , he had weighed in and been ckd on the fuel. There was no need to re-weigh the car, the offense was much more damaging than just a (light at the scales), round loss.

The offender was DQ'd, the other guy was awarded the round win.

It isn't always over till it is over.

I was not class racing at the time, but via a question over a year later from the official, it was divulged that same official, had pre weighed the car, knew it was light, and somehow found out that illegal ballast had been added by a happenstance witness report. So he checked it, as he should have.

I am older, the game is harder, my time is running short, I wanna play, and if you see me in the lines after the run, I just want to assure I was legal, don't take offense. And forfeiting my one chance after each pass they are open to prove it is foolish at this point.

I would like to hear what others think on that part of the equation...

[Todd Gross]

Factory Stock runs manuals and automatics together .

[SS3860]

SS/AH runs stick and auto