2008 Mid Year Stock, Super Stock Horsepower Adjustments Announced

[Larry Hill]

What's done is history, two very nice runs I might add. We just need to communicate better so this AHFS will have a limitted effect on our combinations. Phone 270 994 4004 Larry

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by GENE BUELL

Well, some people never seem to figure out how to make a car "run", so they favor "games", I guess that's so they can have a chance. It's not the "class" racing I respected and always wanted to be a part of anymore. Why should you have to go slower than your car is capable of on the race track? If your scared of speed and ET, try a lower class, don't lift.

If you look at the races and parts of the country they are run in you will see for the average guy in a low car count combo it's impossible to "save" your combo, fast runs happen, and you can't take them back.

I took a look back through the archives, and as a general rule, and maybe there are a few exceptions, the low car count combinations that are fast are not hit nearly so often as the higher car count combinations, even when the low car count combinations are faster. We'll just have to agree to disagree, because the evidence I've seen just doesn't support your position. Neither does the math.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by art leong

I have one question? Is there anyone that can not run the index, due to the horsepower hit? You might lose an advantage in class, But these cars can still go fast enough to win an event.
This IS a performance based eliminator.
I think the AHFS is a good idea, BUT they should tear cars down for the automatic stuff. And they should altitude correct all runs, including altitude factored tracks.
I remember the "GOOD OLD DAYS" when the OUIJA (pronouned WE-GEE) BOARD or the DART BOARD were the main source of the fickle finger of factor.I remember engines getting horsepower when there were 2 or 3 faster combos in the same class. Just because they were'nt politically correct.
And I'm not being a crybaby because the combo we ran never got factored.
I think you will see more guys quitting because of sandbagging than the economy. What fun is it to run to 1000 ft and shut down or run 300 pounds heavy.
This is supossed to be racing not coordinated swimming
This is why I'll never go back to a horsepower oriented class. If my index gets hit everyone in the class has to work harder.

Art, the complaint, and it is legitimate, is that while some of the cars that got HP are fast, other cars that are even faster did not get HP. It's not that they lost an advantage, it's that the faster cars just gained again, and the cars that got hit are at an even bigger disadvantage. If you were already around a tenth behind, and suddenly NHRA hung 5HP on you at 8# per HP, then you'd be unhappy as well.

I'm not crying either. Neither of our cars got hit. One reason we don't run a 396 is because there are so many of them and they get hit fairly often. One reason those of us who lobbied for the AA classes also asked for a two tenth lower index is to allow the cars to run. NHRA actually asked us what we felt the index should be, and rather than 11.10, we asked for 10.90, the vote was nearly unanimous, I think only one person dissented.

[House of Darts]

I gave up on Stock Eliminator. Well maybe for 2 more years. I checked out a 10K S/SS race in Div. 1.There were a few heavy hitters that were pedaling before the 1000' mark. That's nuts. Her's a solution to the problem. Since we don't get enough qualifying passes how about this. Everyone makes two passes within a 2-3 hour period. You don't get your time. Just like Pinks All Out. Then you get another 2 passes on the clock. Then after tech, eliminations begin. You run faster than your mystery time... your out. Will the supermen of our class be able to defeat this system? Maybe yes. Maybe no.There are two recent winners in S/SS , Mosbeck and Beard that bring home the dream of every S/SS racer that you don't need to run in the top of the class to make it to the finals and win. Every racer that I have spoken to wants to run all out. They do fear refactoring. Refactoring should be done on a yearly basis like before the new season. S/SS is not like Pro Stock. Not everyone is shooting for a 6.67. A 15.80 W/S is pitted against a 9.90 A/SA. The W/S car and driver must be on the money. The combo affords no wiggle room. The A/SA has power advantages but then again his/her budget is much higher. Do the higher class cars always wins? NO. Do the number of cars under "G" at a divisional event out number the higher class cars? Usually YES. How many events no longer pay for a class win. So break the class record. Get your name in ND. Be pround that you picked the right combo or your talented enough to find the extra HP or you died and went to heaven and have all the $ in the world to build a 50K P/SA. Run all out! No pedal racing! No fender racing! Just racing!

[Dick Butler]

TOO many MOTORS which vary by one cc head spec. one casting number different, one lobe spec. NO ONE will every correct them all to be even with the open books to keep looking.
Want to fix it? Limit motor choices but in any of the car bodies. The smaller the number the easier to control. One 350 chevy 67-72 One set of specs one HP. Too limiting? do you want to fix it? Do you want to run heads up on the gas?
It needs to be similar to AH for fairness to all in the classes. All brands though. Factoring should be brand to brand in a class not 15 350 motors with one cc difference or bigger carb or injected.
Too radical? maybe but it would help make AHFS simpler.
The time of using the books to be fast may be gone for the good of the sport and the attitude of the entire field of racers...

[Alan Roehrich]

The number of different cars, engines, and combinations is NOT the problem. There may still be too many classes. But to start cutting engines out of the guide, or combining them into some sort of bastardized hodge podge is not what is needed. The cars and engines need to stay as close to Stock and as produced as they can given what there is to work with. But limiting engine choices is wrong.

Lynn McCarty has two of the best ideas to help class racing right now. His method to fix the AHFS is great, and the idea to run class during qualifying is just as good.

Maybe we need to look at combining some classes, and probably dropping the indexes 2 to 5 tenths at some point as well.

[Jared Jordan]

Why not just institute a rule requiring racers to be no more than a certain # of lbs over minimum class weight? Combine that with a tough and knowledgeable NHRA official (Wesley gets my vote) monitoring those who are pedaling @ 1000'. You get caught being way overweight and/or lifting and can't prove there's mechanical issues then you're DQ'd from the event.

I realize there are other ways to sandbag (timing, bias tires, etc...) but at least this would help to eliminate some of the b.s. I remember being at Indy a couple of years ago and watching a certain pair of Mustangs dominate class elims without ever really being pushed. Happened in lots of other classes too. Not a lot of fun to watch. However, those racers are playing it smart and manipulating the system to retain their edge. It's the system that's flawed, not the racers.

[Alan Roehrich]

You cannot FORCE people to run their cars wide open all the time. You cannot FORCE strategy out of racing. It would be stupid to try.

NHRA will not add a bunch of rules.

NHRA will not add a bunch of workload.

NHRA will not add more personnel to enforce rules, especially not for sportsman racing.

Attempting to force everyone to race the way you race, or the way you want them to race is not going to work, and it will hurt the class. The playing field needs to be level, and the rules the same for everyone. Strategy is and always will be part of racing. There are guys who dial honest and try to kill the tree. There are guys who hold as much as a tenth, go for a better than average light, and drive the finish line. There are guys who hold a little and try to kill the tree. All are fair and valid strategies, and well within the rules. Qualifying is a strategy in itself. Some run wide open, some hold a little and try to move, some run in bracket mode, and some run on kill. It's all strategy. Just like running heavy and holding so that if you have a heads up, your opponent may not know what you can run. You may or may not be faster, so you can keep him honest.

Wesley won't even go to a National Event, so I doubt he, or anyone like him, is going to sit at the finish line and watch to see if people dump.

[Keith Lynch]

Scott... Your a bad bad boy... go to the corner of the room for 30 minutes and don't do it again!

[Lynn A McCarty]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

What's done is history, two very nice runs I might add. We just need to communicate better so this AHFS will have a limited effect on our combinations. Phone 270 994 4004 Larry

No Larry,

Instead of killing heads up racing we need to change this system and add something that makes sense. The only thing that the current system does is a "plateau hone" the very top. The trigger method is faulty and needs to be replaced. No cars should be factored because the air is better. We need to stop doing silly things like that.

It would be so much easier for NHRA and better for the racers.

Lynn
317-839-8378