How many classes are needed in Stock or SS?

[Dick Butler]

Art, Can FWD run in another Wt break is my question. Can they not compete unless by themselves? That is an honest question. How many wt breaks are needed for just FWD What if they all ran in ONE class and had ONE winner to provide to Eliminator?
As for the 10.90 question which I see as sarcasm but dont you recognize currently they just let you put the dial on and break out on your choice or win instead of them "giving" you a dial of 10.90? The difference is what now?
What does what I drive have to do with Class racing. Does there have to be a class for EVERYONE thing built? Okay? Any way you say it one car per class if there are 1000 classes is Bracket racing.... 10 Cars per class is class racing when they run each other....

[Dick Butler]

Larry , If there are so many classes to race and so few people who run per class it is already Wallet toss. The Cost of a car to dial in and run 1.0 under without racing someone for a prize even as small as a trophy and a trip to eliminator is too high today to save it for ONE professional Sportsman racer per event.
Some of the $30K Stockers or $50K SS or $100K AH + cars are too expensive to just dial in and gamble on all the factoring to be right to win a round against Pros..

[Bill Belden]

People who don't race shouldn't have any to say about class racing.

[Larry Munk]

Dick it's my choice to run a 50 cent POS just the same as it is someone elses choice to run a 50K collector car. You buys your ticket you takes your shot. I drove my first ever front drive stocker on Monday and it is an absolute HOOT to drive. I drive as Art says a front drive car every day. Never thought one of these things would be any fun at all, but I've been wrong on other stuff too. I've been doing this crap for a long time in total obscurity, but as long as most that post on here so I know a little history too. NHRA wasn't set up as a Country Club if it was most of us wouldn't want to be there. Is a Country Club Race Orginization what you want? If so start your own.

[Tim Kish]

There is as much diversity in FWD cars with power/weight ratio as thier is in RWD yet there are only 5 stock classes for FWD cars yet there are 46 classes for RWD. FWD are already combined Stick/Auto with 1lb or larger weight breaks. Super Stock there is only (1) FWD classification, again combine stick/auto.

Looking to Indy as the benchmark for participation there was a participant in each of the FWD classes - there were several RWD classes uncontested.

In terms on combining FWD and RWD on a single index this is unreasonable - power/weight factoring does not create a level playing field between FWD, RWD car and RWD truck (how many trucks have won class against cars since being combined - how many still even compete). The inherent handicaps on the chassis dynamics for both the FWD cars and the trucks would require some compensation. Possibly a weight break for them could level the field.

I'm all for more heads up runs - I'm waiting for Art to get the bugs sorted on his car so we can duke it out. I think there is enough data as most of the active combos have been running for 20+ years, they should be able to develop a factor (weight break, etc) to allow stick/auto to be combined.

[Patrick Kelliher]

As far as NHRA is concerned, leave the stock classes alone. FWD cars make great low budget and entry level cars. The same goes for lower class (U, V, W). SS and GT should remain separated, the differences are too great to combine these classes. The modified classes were supposed to be eliminated years ago anyways. Either move them to Comp or create a modified class again (unfortunately that will never happen). That's my opinion anyhow.

[Dick Butler]

Thanks Tim, That is the discussion needed. How to get it done.
As for not having a car one thing for sure I have nothing to gain from having friendly discussion about the topics on this or any other site. I am not pushing for any loop hole to make me a FAST SS?(fill in the blank) car by poor factoring, or creating a paper car to look good on paper when the Stats show up.
I enjoy friendly discussions and learning about other peoples points of view and cars and issues that affect them in Drag Racing.
I do feel strongly against the continual push to more Bracket racing with expensive S and SS cars. I think guys who get reward from competing Heads up deserve more attention too. Thats the way it started and has gradually been diluted as I have explained by TOO many classes to choose . I am not sure being creative in a one car class is the whole point of racing... It is afterall about RACING someone. If a class doesnt become populated by some critical number like 10 or 12 or?? should it always be on the books? Does the whole form of racing bend down to the least competitive parts of the racing.

[Jim Wahl]

Dick, I am going to speak to you as "friendly" as I possably can. First of all let me tell you that I believe FWD guys have already paid their dues. Our classes were already completely removed from existance. Then after more than one year of debate, pleading, and not so nice conversations with the various NHRA powers that be I was told "ok, if you want to continue to run FWD classes then you reorganize them into 4 classes period." Compton himself made that desision so you can imagine how much thought was put into it! So I did. Later with the help of Chrysler NHRA agreed to a fifth class for the late model FWD performance cars. Sticks and Autos run together with 100lbs. added to all stick combos. You have NEVER had one kind word for FWD cars. Maybe this escapes most of the RWD racers but believe me us FWD guys see it (see Arts comments above) I bet you don't even consider me a real racer, even though I have been racing class cars since I was 18. Maybe if there weren't people like you slamming our cars we would have better car counts in our classes. I can't count the number of times I have been told I was "brave" to run a FWD car and take the abuse and snide remarks from guys like you. Look, I'm not going to say "you don't even race so why listen to you"., but you got your Top Stock and your Jr. Stock and several other heads up classes. now leave the rest of us alone! Now Larry just told you after driving a FWD Stocker for the first time that it was a "hoot". I agree, it is a hoot. There are many others out there who will agree with Larry and me. I'm sorry but if all I had to chose from was a big block Camaro or a small block Firebird (I had one, ask Woodro) I would never race again. I like to be different! I have a SS small block Dodge sitting in my shop right now. It has been covered up for 21 years because I am having fun racing FWD cars! Now I know you have plenty of money and could build or have built just about any car you desire, but I know also you would never own a FWD race car so I'm going to make it easy for you. I challenge you to come to the Southern S/SS Assn. race in Reynolds next week and I will put you behind the wheel of my AF/S SRT4 Neon FWD Stocker. If after you make a pass or two you can honestly say it wasn't a "hoot" I will pay your air fare back home. Now don't worry, after 20 years of driving FWD race cars nobody has ever questioned the size of my penis so I doubt they they would question a big bad opinionated guy like you.

FWD classes have paid their dues, 1) Greatly reduced classes (slashed by 75%) 2) Combined sticks and autos. 3) Index reductions. Now it's your turn!

"Can FWD run in another Wt break is my question. Can they not compete unless by themselves? That is an honest question. How many wt breaks are needed for just FWD What if they all ran in ONE class and had ONE winner to provide to Eliminator?"

Dick, That question shows exactly how much you know about the situation. That has to be the dumbest question I have ever seen on this forum! How about we run ALL Stocker and Super Stockers in one class and one WT. break then race each other in the final? OMG! Dick, have you completely lost it?
Jim

[Dennis P Chapman]

Amen Jim well said.

Dennis Stock FWD.

[Tim Kish]

Originally Posted by Steve Polhill

Tim you'll have to get that converter to stall over 500 rpm before you'll beat anyone.. Hell My escort would take you to the 1/8th mile LOL.. Well to 60 feet anyway

Ouch - being told you'd be out 60' by an Escort is almost as embarrasing as a 12-second comp car - right back at ya.....