S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder

[55 Chevy]

I agree totally with Ron Ortiz. Drop the trigger altogether & leave the indexes alone! Lowering the number will do nothing but stop new people from wanting to run in Stock/Super Stock. Not a solution to the current problem.

[Mark Yacavone]

Let me get see if I get this line of thinking.
If you never lower the indexes and do away with the trigger for factoring, eventually there would be two or more seconds between two cars in the same class.
How many seconds would be acceptable to not discourage new participants 2?... 3 ?

[55 Chevy]

That is perhaps a good point that there may be quite a gap between two cars in the same class. But will not N.H.R.A. re-factor the horsepower of the cars that continue to run real fast after the trigger goes away. If two cars happen to have the same combo in the same class the slow car will also be hit,which is essentially making it tougher for him to run the index.
I actually think even if they dropped the trigger there would still be a bit of the sandbagging that exists now because no one wants to get h.p. by going too fast & getting "noticed".

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by 55 Chevy

That is perhaps a good point that there may be quite a gap between two cars in the same class. But will not N.H.R.A. re-factor the horsepower of the cars that continue to run real fast after the trigger goes away. If two cars happen to have the same combo in the same class the slow car will also be hit,which is essentially making it tougher for him to run the index.
I actually think even if they dropped the trigger there would still be a bit of the sandbagging that exists now because no one wants to get h.p. by going too fast & getting "noticed".

This is exactly what we had before, that everyone complained about.

[Tony Janes]

At this point in time I do not believe would be 2 seconds between any class in stock. Lowering indexes is the same old garbage.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Tony Janes

At this point in time I do not believe would be 2 seconds between any class in stock. Lowering indexes is the same old garbage.

Not saying there is now, Tony. That would be the results eventually.
You already have JR Stock cars running 1.50 under .How long before they run 10.30's ?
How much is too much?

[Alan Roehrich]

Okay, so you remove the trigger. The trigger doesn't do anything but cause an evaluation to be done. So, no trigger, no evaluation. No evaluation, no HP changes. How well is THAT going to work? And don't even THINK about a "HP committee". That sure as Hell won't work.

[Alan Roehrich]

No, I would not call moving classes and not running on kill all the time cheating. I'd call it wise, as well as smart racing. Especially when the combination is by far not the most under factored in the classes.

[Mike Carr]

For the hell of it, I went and looked up the Indexes as of May 7, 1990. I think this shows the current 2008 Indexes are, indeed, soft.

SS/A 9.80
SS/B 10.00
SS/C 10.25
SS/D 10.35
SS/E 10.45
SS/F 10.55
SS/G 10.65
SS/H 10.70
SS/I 10.75
SS/J 11.00
SS/K 11.20
SS/L 11.40
SS/M 11.70
SS/N 12.05
SS/O 12.30
SS/P 12.60

SS/AA 9.85
SS/BA 9.95
SS/CA 10.15
SS/DA 10.30
SS/EA 10.45
SS/FA 10.55
SS/GA 10.65
SS/HA 10.75
SS/IA 10.85
SS/JA 11.10
SS/KA 11.35
SS/LA 11.65
SS/MA 11.95
SS/NA 12.25
SS/OA 12.50
SS/PA 12.75

GT/A 10.10
GT/B 10.20
GT/C 10.30
GT/D 10.45
GT/E 10.60
GT/F 10.70
GT/G 10.85
GT/H 10.95
GT/I 11.05
GT/J 11.15
GT/K 11.25
GT/L 11.40
GT/M 11.50

GT/AA 10.25
GT/BA 10.35
GT/CA 10.50
GT/DA 10.60
GT/EA 10.75
GT/FA 10.90
GT/GA 11.10
GT/HA 11.15
GT/IA 11.30
GT/JA 11.45
GT/KA 11.55
GT/LA 11.65
GT/MA 11.75

SS/AS 9.75
SS/BS 9.85
SS/CS 10.30
SS/AM 9.40
SS/BM 9.60
SS/CM 9.80
SS/DM 10.00
SS/EM 10.20
SS/FM 10.60
SS/GM 10.60

A/S 11.09
B/S 11.29
C/S 11.47
D/S 11.62
E/S 11.76
F/S 11.90
G/S 12.00
H/S 12.09
I/S 12.28
J/S 12.43
K/S 12.67
L/S 12.81
M/S 12.95
N/S 13.05
O/S 13.19
P/S 13.47
Q/S 13.76
R/S 14.05
T/S 14.48
U/S 14.77
V/S 15.39
W/S 15.96

A/SA 11.17
B/SA 11.37
C/SA 11.51
D/SA 11.66
E/SA 11.80
F/SA 11.95
G/SA 12.10
H/SA 12.24
I/SA 12.38
J/SA 12.53
K/SA 12.73
L/SA 12.82
M/SA 12.96
N/SA 13.11
O/SA 13.26
P/SA 13.54
Q/SA 13.89
R/SA 14.13
T/SA 14.67
U/SA 14.96
V/SA 15.71
W/SA 16.80

These were the Class Indexes from eighteen years ago. Since then, with all the aftermarket this, replacement that, and other rule changes allowing the cars to be much quicker than they were back then, most of the Indexes are at least a tenth (or more) SLOWER with all the new rules. And you still think the Indexes are not soft in 2008?

BTW, here are the current-day Indexes, for comparison.
http://www.nhra.com/stats/indexes_ss.html
http://www.nhra.com/stats/indexes_stk.html

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by 1664SSJA

So I think some kind of change should be made on the other end. I don't have a suggestion as to WHAT kind of change, but you guys know better than me.

I agree, there isn't an easy answer to what many perceive to be a problem. If you lower the Indexes, say, two tenths across the board (five tenths is to much, IMO) and leave the triggers (-1.15 twice for a look and -1.40 for automatic), then that plays into the fast guys/girls hands...allowing them to run flat out with no, or reduced, penalties. If you lower the Indexes two tenths, and reduce the triggers to -.95 and -1.20, then you still have the same problem that some currently do not like, which is being unable to run flat out in Class Eliminations, or heads-up runs, without a potential penalty of HP adjustments. I don't think it is the intention of some (at least not me) to chase the little guys/girls out. I'm just pointing out the fact that in the past two decades, we have received a multitude of rule changes to allow us to go faster, and yet the Indexes are Slower than before the new rules (and not all rules have been for the better...the -.50 rule for bye runs to win class, Class Winners not automatically placed in the field, but that is another story in itself). Even if the indexes were reduced two tenths, it would only affect a small, minority population of Stock and Super Stock cars.

(I'm not professing to have the answer to the problem...just tossing some opinions out there.)