Stick vs. Auto index

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Evan,
I think your stick car runs pretty good at G weight ...

Sat, 21 Oct 2006, 05:53 PM
Junior Stock Qualifying, Final Order
MOHNTON, Pa. - Final order after one round of qualifying in Junior Stock at the NHRA, Pennsylvania Dutch Classic:

Not sure what the relevance is of a race 2 years ago...

[Jeff Lee]

From NHRA.com a Comparrison of the stick vs. auto records in the "traditional" Superstock classes. I'll do Stock later.
Not only do the auto's seem to ET considerably quicker, the auto's seem to MPH considerably faster!
In fact, you'll see only two classes which have records on both sides have quicker ET's & MPH with a stick over auto, both held by Fords (428 & 289)!


SS/A 8.95 150.14 ------------------------SS/AA 8.67 153.68
SS/B 8.97 148.41 ------------------------SS/BA 8.86 150.37
SS/C 9.85 0.00 Minimum--------------- SS/CA 8.99 & SS/CA 148.46
SS/D 10.00 0.00 Minimum-------------- SS/DA 9.12 144.74
SS/E 10.05 0.00 Minimum-------------- SS/EA 9.32 143.40
SS/F 10.15 0.00 Minimum--------------SS/FA 9.60 134.91
SS/G 9.57 139.38 -----------------------SS/GA 9.67 135.83
SS/H 9.96 133.96------------------------SS/HA 9.63 136.50
SS/I 9.93 135.11 ------------------------SS/IA 9.54 137.50
SS/J 10.60 0.00 Minimum ------------- SS/JA 9.93 131.64
SS/K 10.31 127.51 ---------------------SS/KA 10.12 & SS/KA 0.00
SS/L 10.13 129.51 ---------------------SS/LA 10.52 & SS/LA 0.00
SS/M 11.40 0.00 Minimum ------------SS/MA 10.80 122.50
SS/N 11.75 0.00 Minimum ------------SS/NA 11.00 118.82
SS/O 12.00 0.00 Minimum ------------ SS/OA 11.62 115.46
SS/P 12.16 111.56----------------------SS/PA 11.55 113.91

[Jeff Lee]

So here are the Stock records from NHRA.com. Clearly, there does not seem to be an ET or MPH advantage to the stick cars. Auto's dominate both the ET & MPH records (of the classes contested on both sides).


AA/S 9.75 136.61 -----------------------AA/SA 9.71 134.24
A/S 10.75 0.00 Minimum---------------A/SA 9.78 & A/SA 0.00
B/S 11.00 0.00 Minimum --------------B/SA 10.16 129.82
C/S 10.40 128.11 ----------------------C/SA 10.33 & C/SA 0.00
D/S 10.56 & D/S 125.56 -------------D/SA 10.42 & D/SA 125.83
E/S 11.16 119.28-----------------------E/SA 10.49 123.94
F/S 10.89 119.40 --------------------- F/SA 10.69 122.86
G/S 10.98 121.12 --------------------- G/SA 11.80 0.00 Minimum
H/S 11.53 115.96 ----------------------H/SA 11.95 0.00 Minimum
I/S 11.18 119.32 -----------------------I/SA 11.26 116.40
J/S 11.46 114.82--------------------- -J/SA 11.37 & J/SA 114.07
K/S 11.59 112.62---------------------- K/SA 11.57 113.80
L/S 11.90 109.57 ---------------------L/SA 11.51 113.09
M/S 12.00 109.24---------------------M/SA 11.61 112.98
N/S 12.11 108.75--------------------- N/SA 12.80 0.00 Minimum
O/S 12.25 106.41--------------------- O/SA 12.15 108.71
P/S 12.39 108.58--------------------- P/SA 12.17 109.72
Q/S 13.45 0.00 Minimum------------ Q/SA 12.82 & Q/SA 101.53
R/S 13.75 0.00 Minimum -----------R/SA 13.01 103.14
T/S 14.20 0.00 Minimum-------------T/SA 13.27 98.77
U/S 13.94 96.09----------------------- U/SA 13.77 95.96
V/S 14.45 94.24----------------------- V/SA 14.56 92.21
W/S 15.83 82.27----------------------W/SA 16.45 0.00 Minimum

[JRyan]

Look at the SS/L and LA records. No difference there. I've also watched a couple SS/K cars run low 10.1's in less then desireable air. Robin Brown went in the 9's in good air. Advantage stick cars. Also remember Mike Cates' Comet SS/M car going in the 10's many years ago. Not many autos run in the 10's now unless the air is good. Again a lot of the preceived advantage of the automatic cars is the sheer volume of cars. Especially in SS. There aren't many stick SS cars and several run them just to run them.

Rick Ryan

[Real Racer]

Speaking of records, look at how many are at the minimum.
Using them as a comparison now is moot. They do not reflect the real world performance capabilities.
NHRA has taken all the fun and glory out of setting them so you see far fewer of the go fast guys chasing them these days.

As little as 5 years ago the records page was full and then you had a real comparison of stick vs auto.
Most of the stick records were as far or farther under the index as the autos.

In the 70's, as I recall the stick records in S/SS were a full second faster than the autos.
Jerry Ryan can probably back me up on this.

[Mark Faul]

How many of the records were set at altitude tracks? There are many variables in place. It's not really an apple to apple comparison.

[Jeff Lee]

What I'm hearing is different ways to slice and dice the statistics in order to favor a particular objective. What happened in the 70's, and what track these records were set at is really a moot point. The difference in equipment is vastly different. And the 2 records set by SS cars were both at Tucson, an altitude track. I suppose some would want to discredit those runs thereby leaving ZERO national records in SS set quicker than their auto trans competitors!

The discussion is NHRA indexes and the standard is the NHRA national record. The standard is not what you watched your buddy or competitor do at the track one fine day, it's what is official and accepted by NHRA. And in looking at both the Stock and Superstock records it's pretty clear the sticks do not deserve a penalty with regards to the index.

Stock has (2) stick records of 14 contested on both sides or 15%.
Superstock has (2) stick records of 8 contested on both sides or 25%.