Runner Volumes

[hadtobethere]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

What's the deal????? We already have specs that we have been working with for years - carbs, combustion chamber volumes, bore, stroke, etc. If you find a carb in the junk yard that is over size on spec, you don't use it 'cause you know it won't pass tech. Same with the runner volumes. Don't use a head that won't pass or make it pass. Just because we haven't had a spec for runner volumes before is no reason to get your shorts in a wad. Deal with it like everything else..............

The "measure and add 1 or 2 percent" idea was used during the establishment of the current SS specs.............I'm sure there are exceptions.

You hit the nail on the 'head'......Stockers have known for years what the SS head specs are, and NHRA should have had their heads out of their XXX's and used these specs for stocker guys from day one.....After you guys used all of the tricks the SS guys used to do and then added bowl cuts, trick valves, etc, now you got 'BIG heads....cause NHRA now says, we are going to use the SS specs for Stock....I think most of you guys always knew that someday NHRA was going to do exactly this.

[Bruce Noland]

This is probably a discussion for the racers only forum on this site, because we have too many non racers and no names out here mixing it up with current racers on this issue.

[bsa633]

""In addition, cylinder head runner volumes will be monitored during 2009. Runner values may not exceed the current Super Stock Cylinder Head Volumes as listed on www.nhra.com.

Regardless of the poured volume measurement, any modifications to intake and exhaust runners are prohibited. Any evidence of modifications from the original castings will be grounds for disqualification. Final decision at the discretion of the Technical Services Department.

A revised list of Stock and Super Stock accepted runner volumes will be adopted for the 2010 season ""

Is that last sentence still in effect? If so.. why would they DQ. Stockers acc. the current SS list this year of 2009 if they then possible could be legal 2010?

[Dick Butler]

First Crate motor is a term to degrade racing ONLY a term. We can gradually "evolve" to Spec motors or move constructively to limit ambiguous rules and rulings.
Yes I am not racing now but with doing it with three cars in the late part of my 35 years doing it I have watched it , experienced it and dealt with it. You may not like the term Crate motors but you each have your own Spec motor now just you built it to fit the spec of your year car. Everyone wants stable specs while some use the unstable production of old parts as an excuse to not follow the specs published. Why dont people keep searching for a casting that can make the specs? cost of multiple old castings to find one pair that works. With the consistent push for fewer and fewer gray zones on valve angles, valves , acid use people are pushing for a CNC piece to be used with molded production. Alan, I respect your point of view that it would not be the same (in one way) to have given Casting of aftermarket to be used. It is the same just get the piece clean and cheaper and hopefully less to finish and the supply can be larger.
55 chevy still has a spec, Ford still has a spec. People still can race class now with Aluminum heads right? what would change except ONE STEP to uniform parts and specs for all motors and brands.
As far as a Chevy eliminator I hear ford has a DOVE head, right, Cranks are built by many people. This could really help the manufacturers have a market and continue to exist.Chrysler has all new Hemi parts produced now right?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

First Crate motor is a term to degrade racing ONLY a term. We can gradually "evolve" to Spec motors or move constructively to limit ambiguous rules and rulings.
Yes I am not racing now but with doing it with three cars in the late part of my 35 years doing it I have watched it , experienced it and dealt with it. You may not like the term Crate motors but you each have your own Spec motor now just you built it to fit the spec of your year car. Everyone wants stable specs while some use the unstable production of old parts as an excuse to not follow the specs published. Why dont people keep searching for a casting that can make the specs? cost of multiple old castings to find one pair that works. With the consistent push for fewer and fewer gray zones on valve angles, valves , acid use people are pushing for a CNC piece to be used with molded production. Alan, I respect your point of view that it would not be the same (in one way) to have given Casting of aftermarket to be used. It is the same just get the piece clean and cheaper and hopefully less to finish and the supply can be larger.
55 chevy still has a spec, Ford still has a spec. People still can race class now with Aluminum heads right? what would change except ONE STEP to uniform parts and specs for all motors and brands.
As far as a Chevy eliminator I hear ford has a DOVE head, right, Cranks are built by many people. This could really help the manufacturers have a market and continue to exist.Chrysler has all new Hemi parts produced now right?

Dick;
What about Buick,Olds,6 cyl. engines,Pontiac,AMC etc.?Me and Jeff,Aris,Jim Mantle and others can't just run to the local AMC dealership or for that matter most after market companies and get the trick of the week.I know,build something more common.There's enough Chevies and Mustangs now.We dont need Chevy_Mustang Elim. being called to the lanes.

Ed F.

[Dick Butler]

Alan, I understand the feelings about the Crate motors because it loses the "flavor" of class racing.
The alternative is dont us the term and wait for all cars to get there over another X years with bogus specs of every kind and opinions for decisions instead of Numbers or specs.If it were a move to SIMPLIFY the spec choices and searchs and specs to enforce that was my view.
Ed, Diversity is a neat deal in Class racing. Can it be racings worst enemy? maybe. Too many specs in the books and too few enforcers and tech abilities to keep it working. Soon laxity and lack of enforcement and overruling decisions become the norm.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Alan, I understand the feelings about the Crate motors because it loses the "flavor" of class racing.
The alternative is dont us the term and wait for all cars to get there over another X years with bogus specs of every kind and opinions for decisions instead of Numbers or specs.If it were a move to SIMPLIFY the spec choices and searchs and specs to enforce that was my view.
Ed, Diversity is a neat deal in Class racing. Can it be racings worst enemy? maybe. Too many specs in the books and too few enforcers and tech abilities to keep it working. Soon laxity and lack of enforcement and overruling decisions become the norm.

Dick;
The real reasons are
1) Lazy IDGAS leadership in Glendora
2) A small % of racers that will do anything at any cost to go faster and or win races
3) Our wonderful Nat'l tech director
4) GG (glendora greed).Ever seen the salaries these bums pull down?If it was a public owned corp. they would have been out on their asses a long time ago.
I have more,but maybe others can add to the list,it's far from complete.

Ed F.
Dick you were doing well for a while but you seem to be going over the edge again.Get back on those meds.

[Alan Roehrich]

Never mind.