D/Dart in Stock

[Eddie Rezac]

You guys forgot, Rod Kisters, famous 1960 Pontiac stocker, "BIG IRON", out of Scotts Bluff Nebraska. It was a daul four barrel 421 " 4 speed car.
Eddie Rezac

[dart4forte]

Originally Posted by Paul Wong

I dont know why anyone would spend the time to try it because this is a tough and over rated combination. It is not that much better than the 235 combo that is already out there. I would hate to fight 396 camaros, 400 firebirds, 305 hp hemi challengers or any other good E car that is out there with this one. They are a neat piece of history.

I guess tell that to Matt Steen. Of course he's running SS.

[bill dedman]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think Matt Steen's motor is the "D-Dart" 275 HP motor.

Why?
Because you can't run a D-Dart motor in a Valiant, and his car is a Valiant... looks nothing like a Dart, has a different wheelbase, (106" vs. 111") and never had the 275HP option.

He must be running the 235HP "COMMANDO" 273, a different permutation of the 4bbl 1966 motor. The 275 HP motor is not in the Classification guide for Valiants, of ANY year...

[Paul Ceasrine]

Bill,

"You are correct sir."
The D-Dart 275 HP engine was only available in the 66' Dodge Dart.
That 66' Valiant (running in SS/K) is a 273/235 HP engine (Commando).
What confuses people is the high class rating for the car.
Simple, that little thing only weighs 2750 lbs. NHRA factoring
2750 divided by 235 = 11.70 (SS/K or stock class H/Stock).
By comparison, our 67' Cuda 273/235 HP ran in K/Stock from 69' thru 71' (at Dover Drag Strip, Wingdale, NY). It fell into (2) classes higher than the Valiant, as the Cuda weighed 2940, with a perfect weight break of 12.51 wt/hp.
Also, hard to imagine, but our 68' 340 Cuda ran in SS/I in 72' thru 74', only (2) classes above that little Valiant.
Also had a 69' M-Code 440 Cuda, but that's another story for later.
It was very fast, but you could only go straight, and it wouldn't stop with those little drum brakes.

Paul

[bill dedman]

Thanks, Paul; that explains a lot!

[Paul Ceasrine]

Bill,

I'll post proper info on the D-Dart later. But forget about the NHRA, If you want to re-classify the car you must put it in writing, and submit a request.
The only un-fortunate thing, you would probably be the only person in the
world that would want to run a 273/275hp car.
I forgot that NHRA re-rated the 273. thought it was set at 220 hp, and just found out on this thread or (For A-bodies only) it was re-factored to 210 hp.
Now thats a good thing. Confirms that 66' Valiant is correct for SS/K.
2725 by 210hp = puts that car in the 12.00 - 12.99 bracket, or J/Stock.

Also, as posted by the NHRA by mistake. The D-Dart was never put in a
heavier bodied convertible.
I'll post detailed info later today.

Paul (1969 to 1971, K/Stock 67' Cuda 273/235hp)

[dart4forte]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

This is just my opinion, but I don't think Matt Steen's motor is the "D-Dart" 275 HP motor.

Why?
Because you can't run a D-Dart motor in a Valiant, and his car is a Valiant... looks nothing like a Dart, has a different wheelbase, (106" vs. 111") and never had the 275HP option.

He must be running the 235HP "COMMANDO" 273, a different permutation of the 4bbl 1966 motor. The 275 HP motor is not in the Classification guide for Valiants, of ANY year...

Bill,

I was just pointing out the potential of the 273.

John

[Paul Ceasrine]

John (dart4forte),

No doubt, the 273 is a potent little unit, and durable too. We ran ours for
3 years, and never broke anything. but, those damn head gaskets would blow out every dozen races or so. Only 4 head bolts per cylinder.
Just saying, that trying to run a 273 at 275 hp against a 72'/73' 340 or
74' 360 would be a tough task enough. Too many cubes to deal with, and the later engines have bigger-valve heads.

D-Dart info. 1966, the D/Stock class break was 10.60 - 11.29 wt/hp factor. The car was specifically built for D/Stock, yet the car is listed from the factory with a Code; Super Stock Package. The 2-door sedan is listed with a 10.71 factor. Yet, the boneheads at NHRA list the car as a
possible convertible-car also. A heavier car with an 11.11 rating.
Why you ask. I don't know. Why in the hell would Dodge build a heavier car to fit in the same class (10.60 - 11.29). Call Edith Bunker at
NHRA, and ask her.
It would be like building a 68' Hemi Dart with a convertible, and fit it to be in the same class. Do you think the Mopar guys with all their tech brains
would make that kind of mistake? NO.
Year 1966. Barry and Ernie Musser of Pennsylvannia were tearing up the D/Stock class all over the place with their 61' Corvette 283/270Hp
dual-quad car. Running 12.90's. But, got beat at the 66' Winternationals
(February 66') by Dave Kempton. Running a 62' Plymouth which ran
in C/SA, running 13.08.

Paul

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by dart4forte

Bill,

I was just pointing out the potential of the 273.

John

Sorry, John; I misunderstood. Paul Wong is.... well... let me put it this way: you'd have to look long and hard, and would probably ultimately fail, to find anybody with more knowledge of the 273 motor in ANY of its permutations, than Paul.... seriously.

If he says a combination will or won't "fly," it's very likely it's because he has been down that road, already, TWICE, and has first-hand experience... unlike dilettantes like me, who only knows what he reads.

Thanks for your comments.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Eddie Rezac

You guys forgot, Rod Kisters, famous 1960 Pontiac stocker, "BIG IRON", out of Scotts Bluff Nebraska. It was a daul four barrel 421 " 4 speed car.
Eddie Rezac

I believe Rods 1960 Pontiac was a 389 SD with 3 X 2's like Dick Hills 1960 Pontiac out of Penn. The 421 SD with 2 X 4's didnt come out until late 1961 and was run at the 1961 Nationals as O/SS. Anyone have some different info?