Bob Shaw is a bad man

[Bruce Noland]

X TECH MAN,

Did you just advocate bringing back the FX classes on another thread? Heads up are very cool but these new cars need to be properly/honestly classified. That's more important than heads-up racing.

[Billy Nees]

OK, I've put on my Impact! fire retardent underwear so here I go. Bruce, are you listening? The AHFS (in my humble opinion), although it has many flaws, has one BIG flaw that needs to be fixed as soon as somebody in Glendora wakes up. A trigger needs to be in place to fix "Factoring Mistakes" more quickly. I would like to see the -1.40 number used not to give a 3.25% bump to a combo but to "slap" it back to reality. I hate to be aiming this in Bobs direction but when a combo has the rest of the field covered by that much something has to be in place to let NHRA make a drastic HP change.
For some reason, NHRA has never been able to get a handle on factoring combos dating all of the way back to the early 70s when the manufacturers started using "net" HP ratings. From the early 70s through (my guess) the release of the LT-1 in 93 NHRA would assign a HP number to a combo based on a "comparison" to an existing combo (X-Tech Man, elaborate?). When the LT-1 was released, the factor became 275 which is what the factory rating was. The rating after 18 years now stands at 325? and it's still a good combo (Bobby Warren #1 @ Gators). By the time the Caddy was put in the guide (no it hasn't been there for 30 years) NHRAs policy had become one of accepting whatever the factory rating is. If you compare Bobs 77 350 Caddy/Olds to a 77 350 Olds, you'll find that the Olds was immediatly factored from 170 to over 250 (it has been defactored to 250) based on earlier Olds combos.
This is getting too long and rambling, to close I would just like to see the -1.40 trigger used to give under factored combos a "slap" instead of a "bump".
Please Bob, don't take this personally as it's not meant to be.

[Jack Matyas]

Billy - For once you and I agree -- combo's like the Seville need more than a bump but who is to say what is the right amount ? It's very hard to just pick out a number and assign it without making junk out of that combo -- have you a fair way ?

PS -- FYI -- all LT1's (in Stock) with an automatic transmission are factored at 341 horsepower not 325 as stated .

[Billy Nees]

Well Jack, the old way of just "handing you 10" in the staging lanes wasn't fair but 3.25% at a time will in some cases take forever. Again I have to use Bob as a "whipping post" to make my point but his combo won't even make the top of U/SA until it is factored to 209 HP (it's now at 186). That looks like 4 more -1.40 hits until it makes the top of the class! It has to be hit to 220 HP to push it out of U. No Jack I don't know what the answer is to keep it fair but I'm going to have to say that something in the middle? Sorry I don't know it all, if I did I'd be you!

[Bruce Noland]

Billy,
I agree!

[Jack Matyas]

Billy - once again I agree but there are no rules in place to hit a Horsepower factor that hard .On top of that if you got that car out of "U" and into "T" it would still be very fast for that class and we would have the Eddie Fernandezs' out there complaining about him in their class .
Not to take anything away from Bob Shaw but his driving at Belle Rose was not terrific and he would soon rack up those four hits you were speaking of this problem would take care of itself .The same goes for the new CobraJets -- not all are factory drivers and they will want to flex their muscles -- then the AHFS will work like it should .Its' human nature -- if 'ya got it...flaunt it ! ! !

[Billy Nees]

So Jack, what you're telling me is that it's OK with you to put new combos in the guide at an unreasonably low factor and wait oh, 10-15 years or so to maybe sort them out? I'm far and away NOT a good business man but that just doesn't seem to be the correct way to be treating your (NHRA's) customers. Oh that's right! we're not customers we're Participents!

[Jack Matyas]

Billy -- No , I'm not telling you to wait 15 years but untill you or someone comes up with a fair system of factoring we have to utilize what we do have .Its very easy to use strong words but solving the problem is the issue here -- you can't just assign horsepowers willy-nilly -- have you forgotten what it was like during the "Farmer" days ? That was not fun ! ! ! And yes , we are customers -- in their ballpark ...............

[Billy Nees]

Well Jack what would YOU propose? Bruce? Kenny? Evan?Anybody? Let's hear it! Maybe this should be a new thread?

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Billy - once again I agree but there are no rules in place to hit a Horsepower factor that hard .On top of that if you got that car out of "U" and into "T" it would still be very fast for that class and we would have the Eddie Fernandezs' out there complaining about him in their class .
Not to take anything away from Bob Shaw but his driving at Belle Rose was not terrific and he would soon rack up those four hits you were speaking of this problem would take care of itself .The same goes for the new CobraJets -- not all are factory drivers and they will want to flex their muscles -- then the AHFS will work like it should .Its' human nature -- if 'ya got it...flaunt it ! ! !

Jack;
In case you weren't aware of it Bob's car runs T frequently and has since he's had it.I've never complained
about it,or John Ruth or Capt. Jack or any other T car.My car is as fast as it will ever be on my minuscule budget.One thing I'm proud of was a PM from someone congratulating me on how fast my 6 cylinder runs
in a class dominated by V-8s.And you know it is all Tom G.who makes it possible.
And of course Billy is on the right track.

Ed