New to Stock - Buying an 85 Camaro G/H/I??

[Chris1529]

Although its a completely different sport, I'd like to share a line from Robert Duvall from the movie "Day's of Thunder". "There's nothing stock about a stock car"

[Signman]

"Stock is not Stock" Gerry Stein

[Allen Sherman]

Chris and frank those are both funny and true statements...lol...I've been racing stock over 20 years now and my dad raced since the 60's and we constantly have a conversation about how drastic the rules have changed even just in the last 6 years, much less how different it was when you had to have the stock valve spring height and pressures, stock cam durations and overlap and such...evolution is reality as far as this all goes...

[HandOverFist]

Originally Posted by Allen Sherman

Chris and frank those are both funny and true statements...lol...I've been racing stock over 20 years now and my dad raced since the 60's and we constantly have a conversation about how drastic the rules have changed even just in the last 6 years, much less how different it was when you had to have the stock valve spring height and pressures, stock cam durations and overlap and such...evolution is reality as far as this all goes...

Allen - From your experience with these engines what would be the minimum work involved in getting one to say middle of the road performance with today's standards?

[davidhuff]

Originally Posted by Allen Sherman

Not gonna get in a pissing match on here but here's the break down on parts cost:
Dart block all done, bored, honed, lifter bushed and race ready is $2500
Top notch heads and intake with valves, springs, head studs and guide plates $5000
Tool steel lifters top notch dlc coated from trend $1100
Roller rockers from comp, ultra pro magnum $500+
Metric ring set with ring spacers (best stuff) $1375
Manley pro I beam rods $1175
Cp stocker pistons $800-1000
Good crank is gonna run you $1000

And you still haven't bought pushrods, gaskets, timing set, bearings, timing cover, oil pan, carb, and all the little accesories. I build these for a living and buy the parts on a daily basis so I kinda know what it costs...and I also can gurantee mine will go "right through tear down" also...

Why do heads and intake cost $5,000?
Thanks,David

[Allen Sherman]

Rich, depends on what all parts you have in place already of course, but let's say you wanted to start from scratch and build a complete motor, carb to pan, to be a middle of the road piece, I think you're still gonna spend in the 6000-8000 range for parts...and that would be buying some parts either used or second hand new stuff...and David it's no secret that there's port work being done on the really fast stuff, that's why NHRA incorporated the runner volume rules at the same dimensions as super stock, hence that's why the cost is $5000...but for a break down here's where the price comes from, a good set of heads and intake is gonna be $3500 then you're gonna have about $500 in the good valves, another $750 in the right springs retainers and locks, and another $250 in studs and guide plates. I may be off $25-50 bucks on a couple prices but $5000 is a close estimate. It costs to run at the front of the pack, always has been that way and it always will, just the nature of our sport...and rich if you're asking just what work needs to be done I think at minimum you need a quality block, good pistons and a good ring package, and you can probably get some 5-7 year old heads off someone and it'll put you in the middle of the pack...just my opinion of course

[FINESPLINE]

Originally Posted by Signman

"Stock is not Stock" Gerry Stein

Could not have put it any better !

[rod butcher]

Originally Posted by jamie2370

Allen and Cooter, it wasn't yall. Most of yall were actually offering advise but, He knows who he is and I won't call him out. Yes you are all correct it would need a 20k motor to run with Butcher and I am still not sure it would help. I have a lot of respect for the work they have done and they have found something. But unless you get a headsup run it is still a bracket race. Play the ladder, change classes, etc. That stuff and the real guys at the track you get to hang with is what makes it fun. I hope Dustin buys it but in the end I don't have to sale it. I was hoping to make someone a good deal so it didn't sit around as we have plenty of cars to work on and have more stockers already.

Jamie,
Your car is a steal at 9 grand. It is worth that rolling chassis IMHO. I wish you guys stayed with the Camaro but I'm sure getting your dad's car back on the track will be special. Best of luck.

rod

[HandOverFist]

Originally Posted by Allen Sherman

Rich, depends on what all parts you have in place already of course, but let's say you wanted to start from scratch and build a complete motor, carb to pan, to be a middle of the road piece, I think you're still gonna spend in the 6000-8000 range for parts...and that would be buying some parts either used or second hand new stuff...and David it's no secret that there's port work being done on the really fast stuff, that's why NHRA incorporated the runner volume rules at the same dimensions as super stock, hence that's why the cost is $5000...but for a break down here's where the price comes from, a good set of heads and intake is gonna be $3500 then you're gonna have about $500 in the good valves, another $750 in the right springs retainers and locks, and another $250 in studs and guide plates. I may be off $25-50 bucks on a couple prices but $5000 is a close estimate. It costs to run at the front of the pack, always has been that way and it always will, just the nature of our sport...and rich if you're asking just what work needs to be done I think at minimum you need a quality block, good pistons and a good ring package, and you can probably get some 5-7 year old heads off someone and it'll put you in the middle of the pack...just my opinion of course

So, without the latest/greatest head work what would one expect with the rest of the package in order? In other words, how much are the fully prepped heads really worth?

[Bill Diehl]

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

So, without the latest/greatest head work what would one expect with the rest of the package in order? In other words, how much are the fully prepped heads really worth?

16 new .375/.325 deep valve seats and proper valve job will really wake some castings up....some more than others


without porting, acid, or any cover up work you got yourself a set of 325+ cfm STOCK castings from one particular manufacture (and let me be clear WITH NO PORTING) other results from other makes will not be as good


replacing seats has been in the rule book as long as I can remember.


run them numbers thru your favorite internet calculator and you will see what kind of power can be made


The cheating bastards doing cover up work are not using that head as far as I know though


let the sh*_ storm begin