Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71 - Page 2

bill dedman · 06-27-2016, 02:12 AM

1. The problem with a Turboglide was, it held the engine at about 3,500 rpm until it was going about 75 mph... Only then, after it was in 3rd gear (1:1) would the rpms start increasing. A small block Chevy doesn't make much power at 3,500 rpm... so, no, not many people ran them...

2. The Slim Jim was a 3-speed automatic that suffered from having one too few gears; it acted like a 4-speed automatic that was missing second gear... the large rpm drop from 1st to second was excerbated by the fact that second was a direct (mechanical) application of engine torque (had no power going through the fluid coupling) so there was no "slip" at all,and this droppped the rpm even further.. not a good thing.

2. I don't know which transmission the Cox cars ran, but if I had to guess, I would imagine that they all ran the two-fluid-coupling, 4-speed transmission; the Slim-Jim was too fragile and slow to be effective.

Oldsmobile called that big-car transmission "Jetaway HydraMatic", while Pontiac called it "Strato-Flight HydraMatic"..... same transmission. I have never seen either referred to as a "Super HydraMatic."
Sorry I don't know more about the Cox cars... but, I seem to remember that the Cox race cars were always high-performance versions, and as such, would not have come with the Slim Jim boxes.

jimmyparker · 06-27-2016, 07:49 AM

Reference the 70/71 Records, I have one little tidbit that reminds us what communication was like in the "old days". I set the O/S record at the Gainesville Div II race in '71 at around 13.45, tore down and was really happy to get the record. What I didn't know was that Bruce Wilkinson set it the same weekend in Bowling Green at 13.41 or so. I got my certificate but it never hit ND which was a big deal back then. I had a 220hp '66 Belair Two door sedan and Bruce was running his '56 wagon at that time.

Jimmy Parker

Rich Biebel · 06-27-2016, 09:23 AM

The automatic transmissions and converter or fluid coupling issues were a very big deal back then and why manuals were preferred. "Slush Box" was a popular term...I had a '58 Pontiac with an automatic trans and raced it a little. It was my Street car and I also used it as a tow car. Trans went and I had it rebuilt by a racing buddie. Shifted to hard after the rebuild. Those transmissions failed often if raced.

bill dedman · 06-27-2016, 03:04 PM

The dual-coupling units were used in their OEM applications because that was the NHRA class rule for Stock, but I never saw one in a Gas Coupe or Modified Production race car. Those cars would have (if they were not a manual-transmission car) an aftermarket, earlier model "Dual-Range" HydraMatic which only had a single fluid coupling.
There were several companies that sold modified units for street/strip duty and racing; the most popular was built by B & M (whose "Hysro-Stick" was a ruaway hit in the marketplace,) but, there were several others (Bee-Line, Vitar, Quartermaster, C & O Hydro, and a few whose names I can't recall at the moment.)

Though there were a lot of really fast Pontiacs (mostly,) in the "dual-coupling" period of time (1956-1963) virtually all of the HydraMatics in Gassers, Street Roadsters, Altereds and Modified Production race cars were of the earlier, "Dual-Range," single-coupling type.

BTW, "Dual-Range" was a sales gimmick, nothing more. In 1952, They (G,M,) added another position to the shifter indicator; the letter "S", for "Super." Putting the selector in that position simply kept the transmission from up-shifting into 4th (top) gear, making the car more responsive. It could also be used as a braking device at hiway speeds. Big deaL...

Ed Wright · 06-27-2016, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyparker

Reference the 70/71 Records, I have one little tidbit that reminds us what communication was like in the "old days". I set the O/S record at the Gainesville Div II race in '71 at around 13.45, tore down and was really happy to get the record. What I didn't know was that Bruce Wilkinson set it the same weekend in Bowling Green at 13.41 or so. I got my certificate but it never hit ND which was a big deal back then. I had a 220hp '66 Belair Two door sedan and Bruce was running his '56 wagon at that time.

Jimmy Parker

I had the same thing once. Set both ends of the N/S record with my '56, tore down for Red Anderson (I was just a kid, and scared to death of him.), the Ronca Bros set both ends
the same weekend in div 1. I got the points, nothing else. I set the ET record two more times. I never could run the MPH those guys ran.

Kenney Kelley · 07-10-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

I had the same thing once. Set both ends of the N/S record with my '56, tore down for Red Anderson (I was just a kid, and scared to death of him.), the Ronca Bros set both ends
the same weekend in div 1. I got the points, nothing else. I set the ET record two more times. I never could run the MPH those guys ran.

Ed In 1968 I was at a Points meet at Warner Robbins Ga. back then you could set the ET or MPH record. The car we had was a 9Pass 57 Wagon 265 2 Barrel Q/S. We were real close to the MPH. We were parked next to a racer that told me next time I go to the line stage the car put it in reverse let the clutch out very slowly the car will move back a couple of feet then put the car in first and go. That 1 or 2 feet put us within 2 tenths of a MPH record. That might have been how some were able to run the MPH. I was only 18 at the time. They have changed the rules now the car has to move forward. This was about the time the How to build a winning junior stocker article was in the Super Stock and Drag illustrated that's how we were able to build the car. I spent a lot of time under the car scraping undercoating. That's when I found out chevy had 2 different frames for a 55/57. Kenney

Ed Wright · 12-26-2016, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenney Kelley

Ed In 1968 I was at a Points meet at Warner Robbins Ga. back then you could set the ET or MPH record. The car we had was a 9Pass 57 Wagon 265 2 Barrel Q/S. We were real close to the MPH. We were parked next to a racer that told me next time I go to the line stage the car put it in reverse let the clutch out very slowly the car will move back a couple of feet then put the car in first and go. That 1 or 2 feet put us within 2 tenths of a MPH record. That might have been how some were able to run the MPH. I was only 18 at the time. They have changed the rules now the car has to move forward. This was about the time the How to build a winning junior stocker article was in the Super Stock and Drag illustrated that's how we were able to build the car. I spent a lot of time under the car scraping undercoating. That's when I found out chevy had 2 different frames for a 55/57. Kenney

I never heard of doing that to set the MPH record. I always heard how fast Atco was, just assumed it was the air. Back when the car I race was my street car (faster than it is now, but not legal for a class.) I was in invited to an EFI Shootout GM High Tech magazine was putting on at Englishtown, NJ. A couple of friends wanted to go, SS we put it in one of those guy's trailer and went. Fastest track I ever been to. Heck, I always thought Pomona was fast. Local guys were saying (should have done this at Atco, where it's fast. Really? I told the guys that came with me "Now I know how the Ronca Bros were so fast!" LOL I had no wheelie bars, and just some cheap QA1 shocks. It was fun to drive, scraping the bumper & shifting in the air. Didn't have the nerve to go to Atco like that. LOL

Mark Yacavone · 12-26-2016, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenney Kelley

Ed In 1968 I was at a Points meet at Warner Robbins Ga. back then you could set the ET or MPH record. The car we had was a 9Pass 57 Wagon 265 2 Barrel Q/S. We were real close to the MPH. We were parked next to a racer that told me next time I go to the line stage the car put it in reverse let the clutch out very slowly the car will move back a couple of feet then put the car in first and go. That 1 or 2 feet put us within 2 tenths of a MPH record. That might have been how some were able to run the MPH. I was only 18 at the time. They have changed the rules now the car has to move forward. This was about the time the How to build a winning junior stocker article was in the Super Stock and Drag illustrated that's how we were able to build the car. I spent a lot of time under the car scraping undercoating. That's when I found out chevy had 2 different frames for a 55/57. Kenney

We would stage crooked and cover a lot of ground....

06-27-2016, 02:12 AM	#1
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71 1. The problem with a Turboglide was, it held the engine at about 3,500 rpm until it was going about 75 mph... Only then, after it was in 3rd gear (1:1) would the rpms start increasing. A small block Chevy doesn't make much power at 3,500 rpm... so, no, not many people ran them... 2. The Slim Jim was a 3-speed automatic that suffered from having one too few gears; it acted like a 4-speed automatic that was missing second gear... the large rpm drop from 1st to second was excerbated by the fact that second was a direct (mechanical) application of engine torque (had no power going through the fluid coupling) so there was no "slip" at all,and this droppped the rpm even further.. not a good thing. 2. I don't know which transmission the Cox cars ran, but if I had to guess, I would imagine that they all ran the two-fluid-coupling, 4-speed transmission; the Slim-Jim was too fragile and slow to be effective. Oldsmobile called that big-car transmission "Jetaway HydraMatic", while Pontiac called it "Strato-Flight HydraMatic"..... same transmission. I have never seen either referred to as a "Super HydraMatic." Sorry I don't know more about the Cox cars... but, I seem to remember that the Cox race cars were always high-performance versions, and as such, would not have come with the Slim Jim boxes. __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 06-27-2016 at 02:16 AM.

06-27-2016, 07:49 AM	#2
jimmyparker Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: columbus, georgia Posts: 385 Likes: 66 Liked 309 Times in 88 Posts	Re: Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71 Reference the 70/71 Records, I have one little tidbit that reminds us what communication was like in the "old days". I set the O/S record at the Gainesville Div II race in '71 at around 13.45, tore down and was really happy to get the record. What I didn't know was that Bruce Wilkinson set it the same weekend in Bowling Green at 13.41 or so. I got my certificate but it never hit ND which was a big deal back then. I had a 220hp '66 Belair Two door sedan and Bruce was running his '56 wagon at that time. Jimmy Parker

06-27-2016, 09:23 AM	#3
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,319 Likes: 25 Liked 552 Times in 215 Posts	Re: Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71 The automatic transmissions and converter or fluid coupling issues were a very big deal back then and why manuals were preferred. "Slush Box" was a popular term...I had a '58 Pontiac with an automatic trans and raced it a little. It was my Street car and I also used it as a tow car. Trans went and I had it rebuilt by a racing buddie. Shifted to hard after the rebuild. Those transmissions failed often if raced. __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

06-27-2016, 03:04 PM	#4
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71 The dual-coupling units were used in their OEM applications because that was the NHRA class rule for Stock, but I never saw one in a Gas Coupe or Modified Production race car. Those cars would have (if they were not a manual-transmission car) an aftermarket, earlier model "Dual-Range" HydraMatic which only had a single fluid coupling. There were several companies that sold modified units for street/strip duty and racing; the most popular was built by B & M (whose "Hysro-Stick" was a ruaway hit in the marketplace,) but, there were several others (Bee-Line, Vitar, Quartermaster, C & O Hydro, and a few whose names I can't recall at the moment.) Though there were a lot of really fast Pontiacs (mostly,) in the "dual-coupling" period of time (1956-1963) virtually all of the HydraMatics in Gassers, Street Roadsters, Altereds and Modified Production race cars were of the earlier, "Dual-Range," single-coupling type. BTW, "Dual-Range" was a sales gimmick, nothing more. In 1952, They (G,M,) added another position to the shifter indicator; the letter "S", for "Super." Putting the selector in that position simply kept the transmission from up-shifting into 4th (top) gear, making the car more responsive. It could also be used as a braking device at hiway speeds. Big deaL... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 06-27-2016 at 03:10 PM.