IHRA and Memphis - Page 2

SS3718 · 08-23-2017, 12:40 PM

For me, it's very difficult and almost impossible to run for a championship in two different organizations plus support our local combo races. We run approximately 12-14 NHRA races per year that are all less than 7 hours from home. We run another 5-6 combo races per year. Then, if you throw in at least 2 weekends of testing, were gone from home approximately 20 weekends a year. When you factor in our racing season begins in April and runs through October, we only have approximately 28 weekends during that stretch. There's just not much time left! Hope my wife doesn't read this!

Nick

Rich67stang · 08-23-2017, 01:09 PM

As Dan Has stated. Everyone has an excuse, My self included ( I have run full IHRA schedule since 2004) I chose to Try a full NHRA schedule this year. I Love racing with IHRA.

Reasons for dismal car counts:

Too many other races available, If NHRA/IHRA was the only show in town car counts might be larger.

Racers cannot afford to race 2 series and choose NHRA.

Racers Have a big Ego to race anything other than NHRA.

Stirk18 · 08-24-2017, 08:00 PM

IHRA has lost its place in the racing world. Thats mainly why attendance is low. For those who want to class race on the biggest stage and win Prestigious races and Coveted World titles you have the NHRA World Championship . Which also offers moderate purses (subsidized by sticker money)

For those who want to chase a points championship but can only run regionally, you have the Lucas Oil Series. It still offers a sense of prestige to win and also pays moderate purses (again subsidized by sticker money)

For those who want to run locally without large time and money obligations like NHRA tours demand you have local S/SS S/St, S/G, or S/C series, which in most cases pay decent round money and decent - moderately good winners purses for what the entry fee is.

Then you have the current IHRA sportsman system. It unfortunately is not contested on a big stage anymore (like you could argue it did from 2001-2008), It does not offer a regional points option anymore (even when it did it was abit difficult to follow for some). And last it doesnt offer much in sticker money, purse money or a good purse-to-payout ratio.

So back to my point of what do they offer thats any different then the above three options currently dont offer to everyone?

I'm still a big IHRA fan, I think there is a place in the market for them with the right plans in place , but its going to take an ownership and management team that understand the economics of motorsports not just economics to turn this ship around.

Andrew

Myron Piatek · 08-24-2017, 11:11 PM

Andrew, Your viewpoint is too one-sided. IHRA probably could have done some things a little differently, which may or may not have helped. But it's not easy in this competitive market. NHRA has problems too. But IHRA has had growing pains since the new owners took over. Look at what they HAVE DONE and look at all the concepts that they came up with throughout their history that NHRA copied. -

* Mountain Motor Pro Stock
* Top Sportsman & Top Dragster
* Nitro Harley
* Double-header divisional events which includes lower entry fees and less days off from work.
* Points format was the same as NHRA, so that's not even a valid argument. They have obviously tried other points systems that haven't gotten the desired results.
* Incredible payouts in their Sportsman Spectacular events, bonus Super Rod events and a record sportsman payout this year. But few people came.
* I can't remember the last time IHRA racers complained about a "one lane track".
* There's probably many more.

What comes first, the chicken or the egg. A racing series can only grow if it is supported by the participants and spectators. They have set the "stage" with opportunities to grow, but not enough racers came. IHRA, and others, have gone in the red many times in their attempts to attract racers. The more racers that show up, the more they will be able to pay out, attract more sponsors, etc. Aside from some glitches, the Motor Mania TV and ESPN3 coverage has been great and have gotten a LOT of views online. That's a great way for the "little guy" to provide exposure/impressions for his/her sponsors. If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea. I'm no marketing expert, but I don't know of any more big changes they could have made without going broke.

I don't think that IHRA was trying to compete head-to-head with/against NHRA. Nothing wrong with a "medium" stage. I look at IHRA as a way to compete against racers as good as NHRA has, and many do compete on the IHRA side also (they are the open minded ones), but it's a more affordable level for me. I can't afford to race an NHRA national/divisional schedule and there are a lot more class racers that can't as well. The biggest problem is lack of support for IHRA. I hope I can keep racing with them because it's been a lot of fun and I've met a lot of great people. I wouldn't expect less from the NHRA side, but at least with IHRA I can afford it and the competition isn't any less.

Stirk18 · 08-25-2017, 02:10 AM

Myron, other then your thoughts on my view point being too one sided, I agree with what your saying in regards to what IHRA has done, what NHRA has taken from them and to an extent what IHRA still has to offer racers.

To expand on my thoughts alittle I feel there are 5 slices (choices ) to the Class racing Pie, 1) NHRA Nat Circuit 2)NHRA Divisional circuit 3) IHRA Circuit 4) Local Class Racing Associations 5)Bracket Racing and or parked/not racing

Somewhere in there IHRA has lost a chunk of their slice to one or more of the other slices and they need to find a way to re-engage them. An example would be a few weeks ago, Grand Bend hosted their IHRA-less Mopar Nationals. They brought in the Can-Am Stock Super Stock series which had roughly 30 cars running in it in two races in two days (Average race attendance I believe is 38 cars for them normally)

Fast forward to Empire this past weekend there were 34-35 cars combined between Stock and Super Stock. Of the 34-35 only 8 were regular Can-Am S/SS racers.

What I take from this is that IHRA lost a percentage of their pie slice to the Local S/SS option because racers felt it was the better choice to make in their racing/scheduling plan. I feel its safe to say 10 years ago many of those racers would have circled the Empire event as a must attend, just like Grand Bend, TMP, US 131, Rockingham and Norwalk would have been. and they would have filled in the calendar with S/SS combo dates.... Now (around here it seems atleast) its the opposite.

"If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea."

Here is my overall better idea, Stop trying to be everything to everyone, put a 3 year plan together and stick with it and find some consistency within the organization starting with the CEO/President.

No one is going to board your ship if they they think its going to be the next Titanic...

Andrew

Dan Fahey · 08-25-2017, 03:44 AM

Just an observation.
One key past conversation was that IHRA runs a lot of 1/8th mile races.
I have learned to like them but prefer 1/4 mile.

Have are a few ideas to bring in a few more racers.
Some meets make the Sunday race a Double Point event.

Another idea. Saturday 1/8th mile, Sunday 1/4 mile.
Another idea. Have one Triple race weekend
Another idea. Bring back Modified Production
Another idea. Points for setting National Record.
Another idea. 10 extra points for racing in both weekend races

Btw...daughter just announced I will becoming a grandad.
Wow...
D

Michael Beard · 08-25-2017, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myron Piatek

* Double-header divisional events which includes lower entry fees and less days off from work.

I approached IHRA with the idea for double headers many many years ago, and was told it would never work. Later that year, Ralph Hester at Immokalee had the same idea, and made them try it. They've been boasting that it was their idea ever since.

IHRA has been a death by 1,000 cuts. Some of the decisions may not even register as a big deal, but innumerable decisions throughout the years have added up to where we are now -- decisions by all involved: sanctioning body, racers, sponsors, etc. It was tough even in the best of circumstances. I don't see how it is financially viable to save at this point.

66chevron · 08-25-2017, 10:29 PM

First and foremost, I love the IHRA format, their racetracks and their personnel. Have supported them for many years. But for reasons I cannot comprehend, IHRA has plain lost competitors. Many to the NHRA. They either need to figure out how to get them back, which is highly unlikely, or grow new participants. I believe there are a fair number of local bracket racers who would compete if entry fees were lower, travel was significantly reduced, and possibly fear of racing against more seasoned competitors was lessened. I think there is a possible solution. Contest the divisional races at many more local tracks, maybe once/month, with track personnel. So IHRA doesn't have to travel a gang to every race, they reduce expenses. The divisionals occur with a high frequency at your local track, so travel is minimized. And since they are in your house the fear of the seasoned traveling racer is reduced. And one more tickler. Run a big money bracket style race in conjunction with these "divisionals." You attract more local racers, plus some that want to travel, plus some racers that chase big money bracket races. And you can have divisional champions and a run for a national champion.

This seems like it could be a win for the IHRA with reduced expenses, a win for the tracks due to increased car counts at IHRA events.

The points structure would need to be re-worked, entry fees and purses will need rework also. But the current structure is not working. Seems like no amount of tweaks will pull in more racers, so something radical needs to be done.

Ron Cannatti

Dan Fahey · 08-25-2017, 10:36 PM

Mike Beard makes a good point...bleeding from a thousand cuts.
One of the annoying issues with IHRA are the inoperable scales.
Having to use portable unreliable scales.

All the tracks should have professional operating scales.
MIR had operable scales. Keystone that had the portables.
MIR was 25# heavier with same amount of fuel.
At Empire barely made weight despite filling up the fuel tank full.
At MIR would have weighed 120 heavier.

This is one of the things that detracts from otherwise well run races.
I bet NHRA has proper working scales.
Just one small thing that can be corrected..

On a positive note.
Did like the fact Empire improved its rest rooms..very clean.
Guess something happened. Sunday they had portables..

08-23-2017, 12:40 PM	#1
SS3718 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 129 Likes: 5 Liked 27 Times in 14 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis For me, it's very difficult and almost impossible to run for a championship in two different organizations plus support our local combo races. We run approximately 12-14 NHRA races per year that are all less than 7 hours from home. We run another 5-6 combo races per year. Then, if you throw in at least 2 weekends of testing, were gone from home approximately 20 weekends a year. When you factor in our racing season begins in April and runs through October, we only have approximately 28 weekends during that stretch. There's just not much time left! Hope my wife doesn't read this! Nick

08-23-2017, 01:09 PM	#2
Rich67stang Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jackson, NJ Posts: 312 Likes: 3 Liked 111 Times in 26 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis As Dan Has stated. Everyone has an excuse, My self included ( I have run full IHRA schedule since 2004) I chose to Try a full NHRA schedule this year. I Love racing with IHRA. Reasons for dismal car counts: Too many other races available, If NHRA/IHRA was the only show in town car counts might be larger. Racers cannot afford to race 2 series and choose NHRA. Racers Have a big Ego to race anything other than NHRA. __________________ Richard Preiser 1613 FGT/I 1510 C/SA 161 F/DA

08-24-2017, 08:00 PM	#3
Stirk18 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: orangeville ontario Canada Posts: 11 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis IHRA has lost its place in the racing world. Thats mainly why attendance is low. For those who want to class race on the biggest stage and win Prestigious races and Coveted World titles you have the NHRA World Championship . Which also offers moderate purses (subsidized by sticker money) For those who want to chase a points championship but can only run regionally, you have the Lucas Oil Series. It still offers a sense of prestige to win and also pays moderate purses (again subsidized by sticker money) For those who want to run locally without large time and money obligations like NHRA tours demand you have local S/SS S/St, S/G, or S/C series, which in most cases pay decent round money and decent - moderately good winners purses for what the entry fee is. Then you have the current IHRA sportsman system. It unfortunately is not contested on a big stage anymore (like you could argue it did from 2001-2008), It does not offer a regional points option anymore (even when it did it was abit difficult to follow for some). And last it doesnt offer much in sticker money, purse money or a good purse-to-payout ratio. So back to my point of what do they offer thats any different then the above three options currently dont offer to everyone? I'm still a big IHRA fan, I think there is a place in the market for them with the right plans in place , but its going to take an ownership and management team that understand the economics of motorsports not just economics to turn this ship around. Andrew Last edited by Stirk18; 08-24-2017 at 08:02 PM.

08-24-2017, 11:11 PM	#4
Myron Piatek VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,542 Likes: 34 Liked 138 Times in 51 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis Andrew, Your viewpoint is too one-sided. IHRA probably could have done some things a little differently, which may or may not have helped. But it's not easy in this competitive market. NHRA has problems too. But IHRA has had growing pains since the new owners took over. Look at what they HAVE DONE and look at all the concepts that they came up with throughout their history that NHRA copied. - * Mountain Motor Pro Stock * Top Sportsman & Top Dragster * Nitro Harley * Double-header divisional events which includes lower entry fees and less days off from work. * Points format was the same as NHRA, so that's not even a valid argument. They have obviously tried other points systems that haven't gotten the desired results. * Incredible payouts in their Sportsman Spectacular events, bonus Super Rod events and a record sportsman payout this year. But few people came. * I can't remember the last time IHRA racers complained about a "one lane track". * There's probably many more. What comes first, the chicken or the egg. A racing series can only grow if it is supported by the participants and spectators. They have set the "stage" with opportunities to grow, but not enough racers came. IHRA, and others, have gone in the red many times in their attempts to attract racers. The more racers that show up, the more they will be able to pay out, attract more sponsors, etc. Aside from some glitches, the Motor Mania TV and ESPN3 coverage has been great and have gotten a LOT of views online. That's a great way for the "little guy" to provide exposure/impressions for his/her sponsors. If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea. I'm no marketing expert, but I don't know of any more big changes they could have made without going broke. I don't think that IHRA was trying to compete head-to-head with/against NHRA. Nothing wrong with a "medium" stage. I look at IHRA as a way to compete against racers as good as NHRA has, and many do compete on the IHRA side also (they are the open minded ones), but it's a more affordable level for me. I can't afford to race an NHRA national/divisional schedule and there are a lot more class racers that can't as well. The biggest problem is lack of support for IHRA. I hope I can keep racing with them because it's been a lot of fun and I've met a lot of great people. I wouldn't expect less from the NHRA side, but at least with IHRA I can afford it and the competition isn't any less. __________________ LOCOMOTION Racing Last edited by Myron Piatek; 08-24-2017 at 11:15 PM.

08-25-2017, 02:10 AM	#5
Stirk18 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: orangeville ontario Canada Posts: 11 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis Myron, other then your thoughts on my view point being too one sided, I agree with what your saying in regards to what IHRA has done, what NHRA has taken from them and to an extent what IHRA still has to offer racers. To expand on my thoughts alittle I feel there are 5 slices (choices ) to the Class racing Pie, 1) NHRA Nat Circuit 2)NHRA Divisional circuit 3) IHRA Circuit 4) Local Class Racing Associations 5)Bracket Racing and or parked/not racing Somewhere in there IHRA has lost a chunk of their slice to one or more of the other slices and they need to find a way to re-engage them. An example would be a few weeks ago, Grand Bend hosted their IHRA-less Mopar Nationals. They brought in the Can-Am Stock Super Stock series which had roughly 30 cars running in it in two races in two days (Average race attendance I believe is 38 cars for them normally) Fast forward to Empire this past weekend there were 34-35 cars combined between Stock and Super Stock. Of the 34-35 only 8 were regular Can-Am S/SS racers. What I take from this is that IHRA lost a percentage of their pie slice to the Local S/SS option because racers felt it was the better choice to make in their racing/scheduling plan. I feel its safe to say 10 years ago many of those racers would have circled the Empire event as a must attend, just like Grand Bend, TMP, US 131, Rockingham and Norwalk would have been. and they would have filled in the calendar with S/SS combo dates.... Now (around here it seems atleast) its the opposite. "If you know what they can do better, offer your ideas. It's easy to find fault. But it's useless criticism if you don't have a better idea." Here is my overall better idea, Stop trying to be everything to everyone, put a 3 year plan together and stick with it and find some consistency within the organization starting with the CEO/President. No one is going to board your ship if they they think its going to be the next Titanic... Andrew

08-25-2017, 03:44 AM	#6
Dan Fahey VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,128 Likes: 1,084 Liked 184 Times in 113 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis Just an observation. One key past conversation was that IHRA runs a lot of 1/8th mile races. I have learned to like them but prefer 1/4 mile. Have are a few ideas to bring in a few more racers. Some meets make the Sunday race a Double Point event. Another idea. Saturday 1/8th mile, Sunday 1/4 mile. Another idea. Have one Triple race weekend Another idea. Bring back Modified Production Another idea. Points for setting National Record. Another idea. 10 extra points for racing in both weekend races Btw...daughter just announced I will becoming a grandad. Wow... D Last edited by Dan Fahey; 08-25-2017 at 03:50 AM.

08-25-2017, 10:29 PM	#8
66chevron Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis First and foremost, I love the IHRA format, their racetracks and their personnel. Have supported them for many years. But for reasons I cannot comprehend, IHRA has plain lost competitors. Many to the NHRA. They either need to figure out how to get them back, which is highly unlikely, or grow new participants. I believe there are a fair number of local bracket racers who would compete if entry fees were lower, travel was significantly reduced, and possibly fear of racing against more seasoned competitors was lessened. I think there is a possible solution. Contest the divisional races at many more local tracks, maybe once/month, with track personnel. So IHRA doesn't have to travel a gang to every race, they reduce expenses. The divisionals occur with a high frequency at your local track, so travel is minimized. And since they are in your house the fear of the seasoned traveling racer is reduced. And one more tickler. Run a big money bracket style race in conjunction with these "divisionals." You attract more local racers, plus some that want to travel, plus some racers that chase big money bracket races. And you can have divisional champions and a run for a national champion. This seems like it could be a win for the IHRA with reduced expenses, a win for the tracks due to increased car counts at IHRA events. The points structure would need to be re-worked, entry fees and purses will need rework also. But the current structure is not working. Seems like no amount of tweaks will pull in more racers, so something radical needs to be done. Ron Cannatti

08-25-2017, 10:36 PM	#9
Dan Fahey VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,128 Likes: 1,084 Liked 184 Times in 113 Posts	Re: IHRA and Memphis Mike Beard makes a good point...bleeding from a thousand cuts. One of the annoying issues with IHRA are the inoperable scales. Having to use portable unreliable scales. All the tracks should have professional operating scales. MIR had operable scales. Keystone that had the portables. MIR was 25# heavier with same amount of fuel. At Empire barely made weight despite filling up the fuel tank full. At MIR would have weighed 120 heavier. This is one of the things that detracts from otherwise well run races. I bet NHRA has proper working scales. Just one small thing that can be corrected.. On a positive note. Did like the fact Empire improved its rest rooms..very clean. Guess something happened. Sunday they had portables..