Wondering what stock racers think

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Race Clean

It's simple, just add a triple A Class at the top of the chain again and give everyone that should have more HP exactly just that,(with a full tech inspection of course) it seems to be to easy to protect combos with averages, loose that!
With one more Class you have room to move everyone thats need to be moved up one class and the Indexes are not lowered for any odd combo's.
It's had been said Stock is no way near what was intended and I agree to much goodies have been given, It's greed driven,everyone want's something for there combo without thinking about the long run,and NHRA just didn't stand it's grounds on this. (either)I am surprised there still is a Stock Class considering how close it is to SS.
My personal take on when the downfall started is actually when they allowed the combo's to move up one class, then the good combos took over most of the classes and many up to then decent car got somewhat obsolete(Bad for the Car count I think, not everyone want's a Camaro,believe it or not),I am pretty sure someone now gonna say, work on your stuff but we all know that ain't always the problem
And after the the hp committee "lost their job" this was over in my opinion!

I know this does nothing for the really slow guys,I think we can't do much for them until this turns to a real bracket racing.

Good.......No a great post. You pretty much nailed it ! My only question is where are you going to find room on your wind shields and side glass for all of the "A"'s sooner or later ? AAA/SA !

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by B Parker

I agree with my brother Gary. The index's are a joke where they are at. Dropping the index's a tenth is not going to change a thing for the guys at the bottom of the list They will still be there but only now 3 or 4 under. As far as guys quitting because they lowered the index a few years ago. I have been doing this most of my life ( I'm 62 ) and don't know anyone that stopped because they lowered the index's. Lets face it the age of us class racers left and NHRA has been the real reason why most have quite. I said it on here a few years ago. It sucks I'm addicted but my drug dealer really doesn't want me around anymore. How many cars would be at nationals if they took the limit off and we still had the sponsors that have been chased off.

The real Stock Eliminator died years ago!!! Stock is just the name they still use for our class. As they say STOCK has left the building. Not something I wanted but it's the reality of it. For those of you that are key board racers with an opinion maybe you should get to a race and talk to the top half of the field. How many are 100 lbs plus over with extra oil and the timing turned 10 degrees out running an air filter to slow their cars down so not to go 1 second under. That's great until you get a heads up. As Gary said he may not hit some races because he already triggered it once. He has my Corvette that I bought and raced just a few years back. I bought the car from a nice guy who couldn't qualify at indy with it. He told me it was a tough combo and it had been factored to high. That same car now goes 10:70 in G/SA with ease. Not just because of money spent on it. It's because of what we have learned threw the years and testing. If you don't have a clue ask others for help. Most of us old time stockers can't wait to tell you things that will help you go faster without spending big money.

Some of my 1969 camaro friends that race a 350/255 hp rated at 280 combo are concerned their combo is going to end up getting hp. With Sorensen willing to step on his a little. Is that combo overrated ?

James I disagree with you about Indy. It's the only national event where now we really can see who is the big dog in the class. In 2014 with dog poop air as you would say you went .951 under. It's now 4 years later I would hope you have picked it up even a little bit more. That would put you at 1.20 plus under in good air. Maybe your combo needs HP. LOL Billy most of the high HP cars already had solid lifters. The only thing roller rockers did was help in parts breakage. You also go pretty fast with a ( As you would call it) dime rocket. Why??? I already know the answer but maybe you could tell the others the little things you do to make the car run that fast that won't set them back big dollars. I have just started to race stock again. I bought someone else's car had the motor freshened up plus changed some parts. This last Saturday went testing at our local track. By the end of the day picked it up .09. It cost me $ 100 for the day between gas tires and entrance fee. No big changes just little things that I thought would help. There was only one other stocker there testing. For those that are running only a few under get out and test. Ask others for help with cheap stuff you can do to pick your car up. I hope some of the other racers who are sick of having to play the game pipe up on here. Barry

Barry, I can't disagree with anything that you have said here. My issue with the indexes and the AHFS in the state they are in is that they are basically forcing any Newbies or Wannabees to race a new car, a 396, an LS or an LT-1. There's not much room to race some of the older combos that used to be interesting AND competitive. The AHFS helped the 302 FFFords and that was all. A suggestion made to the NHRA by Dwight, Yac and I to give obsolete and non-competitive combos back a significant but reasonable amount of HP fell on deaf ears. Oh well, that's for another thread.

Now, I want all of you "Bad Boys and Big Money Boys" to think about this idea for just a few seconds before you have to run back out to the shop to find more HP or call your Brokers to find more money;

Do away with the AHFS and Indexes as we know them.
All non-competitive combos get 15-20% HP reduction immediately.
At Indy, all Class Winners automatically qualify for the field, the rest of the 128 cars are furthest under the RECORD.
Class Winning ET BECOMES the RECORD. If no-one in Class, then previous record stands.
Following season (starting at the WinterNationals), the RECORD becomes the INDEX. The RECORD stands for 1 season (Winters to World Finals) but is set every year at Indy.
Anyone running under the RECORD at any NHRA sanctioned Event during the course of the year is subject to immediate tear-down AND HP hit.

Do this and I guarantee you that you'll find out just who the "Bad Boys" are out there.
I can also guarantee you that there will be a lot more diversity in Stock Eliminator and a lot less empty Classes at Indy.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Barry, I can't disagree with anything that you have said here. My issue with the indexes and the AHFS in the state they are in is that they are basically forcing any Newbies or Wannabees to race a new car, a 396, an LS or an LT-1. There's not much room to race some of the older combos that used to be interesting AND competitive. The AHFS helped the 302 FFFords and that was all. A suggestion made to the NHRA by Dwight, Yac and I to give obsolete and non-competitive combos back a significant but reasonable amount of HP fell on deaf ears. Oh well, that's for another thread.

Now, I want all of you "Bad Boys and Big Money Boys" to think about this idea for just a few seconds before you have to run back out to the shop to find more HP or call your Brokers to find more money;

Do away with the AHFS and Indexes as we know them.
All non-competitive combos get 15-20% HP reduction immediately.
At Indy, all Class Winners automatically qualify for the field, the rest of the 128 cars are furthest under the RECORD.
Class Winning ET BECOMES the RECORD. If no-one in Class, then previous record stands.
Following season (starting at the WinterNationals), the RECORD becomes the INDEX. The RECORD stands for 1 season (Winters to World Finals) but is set every year at Indy.
Anyone running under the RECORD at any NHRA sanctioned Event during the course of the year is subject to immediate tear-down AND HP hit.

Do this and I guarantee you that you'll find out just who the "Bad Boys" are out there.
I can also guarantee you that there will be a lot more diversity in Stock Eliminator and a lot less empty Classes at Indy.

I like the idea about a reduction for all non competitive combos.

I would describe a "non competitive combo" is any any combo that cannot run the slowest ( under index ) in the qualified field at the US Nationals.

Last year in Stock # 128 was .893 under.
There's the benchmark.

If no one with that combo can run .893 under then it qualifies for a reduction ( reduction % would be based on how much slower the combo actually runs)


Just my .02c

[Daran Summerton]

After taking a hit last season I am all for 1.20 instant hp and flushing everything else.

[GUMP]

I wish they would raise the hit from 1.20 in mineshaft conditions.

[jmantle]

Originally Posted by Daran Summerton

After taking a hit last season I am all for 1.20 instant hp and flushing everything else.

It depends on what you consider mineshaft. I got HP at Mission a couple of years ago when it was -600feet, low humidity and a tailwind but NHRA didn't consider that mineshaft because apparently not enough racers ran fast enough. To make this work the actual conditions have to be taken into account, not just how many fast cars or 1000 ft racers show up.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

[Cotten]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

I like the idea about a reduction for all non competitive combos.

I would describe a "non competitive combo" is any any combo that cannot run the slowest ( under index ) in the qualified field at the US Nationals.

Last year in Stock # 128 was .893 under.
There's the benchmark.

If no one with that combo can run .893 under then it qualifies for a reduction ( reduction % would be based on how much slower the combo actually runs)


Just my .02c

I think this is a good idea.

If a racer goes to the effort to bring a combo to Indy, where everyone is running as fast as they can, and fails to qualify I think an instant reduction is justified.

I also agree with Daran that if mineshaft conditions are met then the 1.20 trigger should not be in effect.

[MEXJOE]

I like, 1.20 under mandatory Tear-down and IF found to be within the rules. Then give the HP.

[Mike Pearson]

It does seem difficult to get HP reductions for the older combos. In my particular case my car is a 327 rated at 295 hp. in SS. Some of the other cars in the class are fuel injected 350 cars that are less HP than my old car. Granted I don't have a good enough car to be a real threat to win class or qualify at Indy but it would be nice if the playing field was a bit more even. Then some good driving and a bit of luck lightning can strike. I really have no complaints.
I actually think lowering the trigger for automatic HP might work better but I doubt we will see anything like that happening any time soon.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Gary Parker

The only remotely justifiable argument for lower indexes is that it "keeps out the riff-raff", and I consider that to be nothing more than arrogance on the part of the racers who feel that way. Indexes will NEVER eliminate sandbagging.

Really...I saved 3 years to have my engine fixed so I could go back out and race. I started with a camaro that ran 4 to 5 under .worked my *** off testing on a very limited budget to make my car faster. We are a performance based class. If you knew me you would know I would like as many people at the races as possible. It has been said that lowering them would keep people away. I know personally I am not going to some because I triggered it once by .005 when the air got real good overnight at Epping. Now if I had a heads up run from another fast car in the class it could happen again. what do I get for all my hard work is horsepower. I also never mentioned 3 tenths, I do agree that is too much. And yes it would be wonderful if we had someone like Famer to have a better handle on factors. Traction problems really have to do with your dial. would not matter the index. I am wondering how many stockers are out there that can not run a tenth under. It does not always cost money to pick a car up. But it helps. Trust me I have one of the smallest budgets there is. I hope the riff raft come race with us. All are welcome by me

For all to come and enjoy, split the difference: Add .15 to the indexes to help out the lower budget and cross overs.......change AHFS hit to 1.50 under that's .15 more than current, change the review to 2 1.25 unders, with ahfs average going up to 1.05 for change from .85.

HP reduction could use some serious help. Its pretty rough as is.

There, I think I like it, at least I like it more than the current AHFS formulas.

Eric