Stockers....buttons.....check This Out

[tgriffith]

Kenny,

,my reasoning is reason # 1 and partially #3,,,,,,,I understand that there has to be progress in the classes to keep up with late model cars coming in,,,,the class cant be full of 67 camaro`s,,,,maybe liteweight brakes are needed for the speeds A/SA cars are running,,,,maybe E shifts are OK because afterall,,,I think all automatics shifted themselves anyway,,,,,,, Im not against modernization,,,,IM not a person that believes the class should just be made up of 69 camaros but a full field of different combos,,,,,IMO,,thats what gives stock it own character,,,,you can see a wheel standing firebreathing A/FIA firebird chase down a front wheel drive cavalier,,,,and no mattter which wins,,,BOTH has the same opportunity to turn on the win lite,(as far as rules are concerned),,,,,,,,,But the 2 steps and adjustable buttons (IMO) doesnt fit in this category and have turned stock into a fast car class only(if you really want to win),,,IMO,,they give the faster cars a large ADJUSTABLE advantage

Im passionate about the preservation ,( as much as possible), in keeping stock from turning into another electronically ruined class,,,,but this is my opinion,,,,and Im probably in the minority

[Ken Miele]

Fair enough Michael and tgriffith.

If anyone is interested in the Class Racer poll on buttons and 2 steps, click on the link below.
http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=7002

[Michael Beard]

TG - sad to say, but even I realize that if I had a faster car, my round win% would go up. When chasing, I typically drive the stripe into .010. When being chased, I've been taking around .030. How much is having .02 in the bank worth? I've had 4-5 rounds this year that I feel 98% certain that I would've won if I were chasing instead of being chased. If I had the money to make the initial investment in the first place, I'd probably do it, but I'm trying to get out of debt before I come up with anymore 'projects'. (Just another good reason to start hoofin' it in the Box class again... need to improve my 'vs. fast car' program)

People realize this, so I don't think anything is going to stop the progression toward faster cars. (refer to the trend in fast Footbrake cars) The only thing that might slow it down is when the upper classes get 'too' full, and they start running into more heads-up runs. Tim's point is that 2-steps make that transition that much easier.

[Greg Hill]

Two steps were designed originally to control starting line rpm for stick cars and then later trans brake cars. In the last few years stock racers having been using them along with the buttons that release them to initiate movement of their cars off the starting line, much like a super stocker with a trans brake. You let go of a button and the car leaves. I don't think that should be allowed in stock eliminator. There's no question that letting go of a button is more consistent that letting go of a brake pedal. If you don't believe me try it on your practice tree both ways.

I really don't have a problem with the two step on the brake pedal because then it becomes what it was intended to be which is an rpm limiting device. Trans brakes delay boxes and adjustable buttons have no place in stock eliminator. Automatic cars should leave when you take your foot off the brake pedal unless your'e handicapped and then I would be all for a device to allow the driver to leave with a hand control. Stick cars even with a two step still have to let go of the clutch. Those of you who would say that you still have to let go of the brake pedal know better, if your right foot is on the floor and you let go of a button your car is going to leave and your foot is going to come off the brake pedal.

And last but not least I think this would make for better and more fair racing and I agree the very best racers are going to win more than their fair share but I truly think you would have more different winners in a year than you do now. One more thing, don't forget footbrake races are becoming huge all over the country and electronic racing is flat at best.

Greg

[Jeff Lee]

Chip,
I stand corrected. I owned / raced the car from 1978-1982 approximately. Perhaps the reaction times were in the later part of ownership not the earliest. I started racing in '78 but can't recall when r/t's were first in use, it was definetly in that time period. Also, keep in mind those killer r/t's had something to do w/ the old style bulbs that you could "read" as well as deep staging, a practice that is total BS that it is not allowed in some classes today. I always have contended that NHRA stated in the "how too" section at the front of each annual rule book that the start line was the most important aspect of racing and the greatest skill a racer could develop; or words to that effect, and NHRA stepped on our dicks when they eliminated that practice. I saw a recent post from TGriffith with one viable explanation I had not considered. That is the "flash" racer's did not appreciate the distraction of the opponent's top bulb being knocked out. I say "so what".
Personally, I think a racer should be able to deep stage or even use a forward / reverse / forward motion to stage as long as it is in the time allowable (i.e., you play around you may get burned by the starter). I have no problem with buttons per say, just those that allow delay by use of a button that is not "automotive type" as written in the rule book. Also, per the rule book, nothing is to be added to the windshield so that means no blinders attached to the windshield. I could care less if a visor or even extended visor is used as long as a safe item for the interior.
So in conclusion, let racer's leave the line on their own accord just enforce the rules about delay devices. Now if NHRA is unwilling or unable to check said items, then I say eliminate them.

[Doug Blackley]

Originally Posted by Todd1153

........ will that keep the crybabies happy?

Todd Hoven
1035 NHRA Stk

In a word....NO lol. There will always be those that will worry more about what the other guy is doing more than concentrating on what they're doing instead.

[tgriffith]

jeff ,,it was told that a few racers were double bulbing,,bump to deep and then notch back to turn the top lite back on,,,,only needing one bump to go deep,,,,,as their opponent would get staged and hit the 2 step,,,the deeper would thne knock out his top lite as the tree was starting to come on,,, distracting other guy,,,,,,I guess the wrong guy got distracted and then it got tossed,,,,,,,,,,Whether thats true or not,,,dont know???? I guess I can certainly see how a few bad apples can ruin anything.....again,,,dont know if thats true BUT sound like a reasonable explaination....One could say,,dont stage until your opponent gets deep,,,got to be very carefull,,,,once 3 lites are on,,,,autostart is counting,,,,, a racer trying to be a sportsman and let the other guy get deep,,,would get counted out for being nice,,,,,and the sad part is,,,the guy deepstaging knows it


But I do know this,,,It works cause a few of the northern racers were trying that BS around here in s/pro,,,,and yes they waltzed thru the classes, cheap shoting racers ,,,,,so alot of the tracks in the carolina`s banned deepstaging in S/pro,,,,,I know its a little different looking at the 3rd rather than the 1st,,but unless the whole tree is blinded,,,,its the same momentary distraction


Todd,,call me a crybaby all you want,,,,if it makes you feel more of a person to sling names,,dont bother me any,,,just remember,,,if it wasnt for people like a few of us crying,,,the class would be full of delay boxes,,,,,which as a personal opinion,,,I favor,,if the 2steps/ buttons stay,,,,Im with a few others on this,,,,either all or nothing,,,,no fence riding here,,,,,I look at it like this,,,,for $200,,,a pinto would be just as deadly on reaction times as any car out there,,,EVERY pass

[Frank Castros]

As a former stock eliminator racer (1979 - 1989) and avid enthusiast since the sixties I implore you guys to ban buttons and 2 steps from the eliminator. Stock eliminator is the purest form of drag racing and obviously the grass roots of the sport. Why would we want to corrupt the integrity of the eliminator any further than has been already?
Progress and technology are great, but is there something wrong with preserving something that means so much to so many people? Is there something fundamentally wrong with foot brake racing without electronics?
Just my 2 cents.

[Jack McCarthy]

greg hill (div 3 points leader)... are you using a button this year or that big pedal in the middle ??

just curious... jack

cuase youve been driving great

[2215BSA]

If two steps are such an advantage just put one in your car and you will not be at a disadvantage.