I Told You So! - Page 11

Eddies66 · 05-21-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom keedle

just words a few LEO's don't live by....

A little like the Constitution.

Eddies66 · 05-21-2012, 09:40 AM

Fellow Citizens:

There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only
image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.

In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release.

The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions.

Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?

When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the
arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

According to Florida Statute 776.032 :

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance
with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?

There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio
recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes have since been released.

Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member?

Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the situation.

Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department.

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.

Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior arrest history?

In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.

What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?

Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case. The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community.

We trust that this information is helpful to you.

Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
March 23, 2012

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Mark Yacavone · 06-22-2012, 12:54 AM

Is there any doubt this guy was overcharged so they could plead it down to something, ...anything to appease the race baiters , agitators and rabble rousers ?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/21...t-fatal-fight/

sst1988 · 06-26-2012, 04:59 PM

REPORT: GEORGE ZIMMERMAN PASSED LIE DETECTOR TEST ON TRAYVON MARTIN KILLING

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...artin-killing/

Eddies66 · 06-26-2012, 05:54 PM

Really? Polygraphs not only falsely accuse honest people of lying -- they also fail to detect skilled liars. Convicted spies Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames both passed repeated lie detector exams during their careers as double agents.

Hagen Gary · 06-26-2012, 06:15 PM

This just in! George Zimmerman is a Super-Secret Agent, planted in a gated community waiting for his perfect opportunity to confront a young black male and then shoot him dead.

If he really is guilty, He either is a Super-Secret Agent who has practiced passing the detector, or he has giant big ones for agreeing to take the test knowing he’s guilty. My view isn’t clouded; I say he has small balls and no “beat the test” training.

SStockDart · 06-26-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddies66

Really? Polygraphs not only falsely accuse honest people of lying -- they also fail to detect skilled liars. Convicted spies Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames both passed repeated lie detector exams during their careers as double agents.

. Come on Eddie....is it so hard to say he was wrongly accused????? He passed the police lie detector on all questions.....including "did you fear for your life". That is good enough for me but apparently not good for the black community. .

Eddies66 · 06-26-2012, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SStockDart

. Come on Eddie....is it so hard to say he was wrongly accused????? He passed the police lie detector on all questions.....including "did you fear for your life". That is good enough for me but apparently not good for the black community. .

Gary, I think he is wrongly accused of 2nd degree murder, the preliminary evidence does not support it! Lie detectors are no good enough in a court of law, only in the court of public opinion. My point is procedure and the merits of using a lie detector. Could the defense be using the release to bias any future jurors?

Mr. Zimmerman was a member of the Community "Watch" and not a member of the Community "Shoot", when he got out of his car (armed) his role changed! In my mind, he needs to be accountable for that.

You think it may be a little damage control after he lied to a judge?

Eddie

NewHemi · 06-26-2012, 08:35 PM

As a Block Watch founder and Captain, with an acknoeledge card and direct training from the local Police, I can tell you that having to be constantly aware of drug deals, and having strange people cutting through your property, stealing from and damaging your vehicles, and breaking into your home, makes you a bit "sensitive" to what goes on in your neighborhood.

I purposely moved into this aging and transitioning neighborhood to make a difference. And I made a big difference. I am not bragging, just trying to make a point, that I believe that nothing more benefits evil, than for good people to do nothing. I refuse to stand by and let things bad happen, if I have a chance to change them

If you live in a nice peaceful area, and have never had to confront these issues yourself, you are a liberal know nothing who just wants to fan the flames because a black kid got killed.

The story, which has not been disproved, is that when Zimmerman left his car, it was to see where Travon was going, not to confront him. As he was returning to his car, Zimmerman was confronted by Travon, attacked and put Zimmerman in fear. In fact, he would not have pulled his gun, if Travon had not gone for it first, telling Ximmerman that he was going to die. Then, laying on his back with his head bloodied from being banged on the sidewalk, Zimmerman got his gun before Travon could get it, and shot him.

An eye witness will testify. And if he upholds Zimmerman's explanations of what happen, Zimmerman should walk.

Being black doesn't automatically make Travon a victim, nor does being white automatically make Zimmerman a murderer.

This is an unfortunate situation all around.

But without proof of guilt, and with an indictment that should get the Prosecutor disbarred, Zimmernan should be found not guilty pf everything including jay walking, which may be the only thing he really did do wrong.

He defended himself and his neighnorhood. I respect that. When I cought a group of young men having broken my car window and going through everything in my car in my driveway, they found out that the signs in the yard about neighborhood watch, meant that we do watch. And my gun meant that I was prepared not only to watch but to defend my life and property. When the police I had called arrived to find these three men sitting on the curb waiting for them, with three knives and one gun on the ground in front of them, and me standing behind them with a shot gun, they found three young men happy to see the police. And the police, all of whom I knew, said this should solve a rash of similar crimes in the neighborhood.

So my point is this, Zimmerman had every right to assure that his neighborhood was safe. He had every right to carry a licensed weapon. And Travon had no reason, except a bad attitude, to confront Zimmerman, attack him, and expect to walk away.

In my neighborhood, word got around that there a cray old guy who had gins, so don't mess around those houses. We made it a better place.

Once again, it is sad that Travon died. Any life lost is sad. But just because he is black doesn't make him innocent of any wrong doing.

So get over the conjecture, and wait for the evidence to be presented, and then see if real "justice" is done.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Eddies66 · 06-26-2012, 09:18 PM

The fact that Zimmerman was armed and pursued Martin did violate sanford police neighborhood watch directives. last September, he invited police to the complex and presided where an officer in charge of the program offered a power point presentation. They emphasized that neighborhood watch volunteers were not to pursue suspects or carry weapons, an instruction that zimmerman disregarded on the night of the confrontation with Mr. Martin.

Mr. Zimmerman was instructed in the "rules of engagement".

05-21-2012, 09:40 AM	#102
Eddies66 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Rancho Mirage, CA Posts: 1,139 Likes: 294 Liked 809 Times in 394 Posts	Re: I Told You So! Fellow Citizens: There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter. In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what information it can publicly release. The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions. Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting? When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable. According to Florida Statute 776.032 : 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released? There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes have since been released. Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member? Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors. They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the situation. Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department. If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation? Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon. Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has a prior arrest history? In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information. What about media reenactments of the shooting incident? Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case. The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution. Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community. We trust that this information is helpful to you. Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM City Manager March 23, 2012 http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

06-22-2012, 12:54 AM	#103
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,485 Likes: 2,660 Liked 4,600 Times in 1,740 Posts	Re: I Told You So! Is there any doubt this guy was overcharged so they could plead it down to something, ...anything to appease the race baiters , agitators and rabble rousers ? http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/21...t-fatal-fight/ __________________ We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for..... Will Rogers

06-26-2012, 04:59 PM	#104
sst1988 Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 302 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I Told You So! REPORT: GEORGE ZIMMERMAN PASSED LIE DETECTOR TEST ON TRAYVON MARTIN KILLING http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...artin-killing/ __________________

06-26-2012, 05:54 PM	#105
Eddies66 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Rancho Mirage, CA Posts: 1,139 Likes: 294 Liked 809 Times in 394 Posts	Re: I Told You So! Really? Polygraphs not only falsely accuse honest people of lying -- they also fail to detect skilled liars. Convicted spies Robert Hanssen and Aldrich Ames both passed repeated lie detector exams during their careers as double agents.

06-26-2012, 06:15 PM	#106
Hagen Gary Live Reporter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cajun country Posts: 335 Likes: 50 Liked 31 Times in 9 Posts	Re: I Told You So! This just in! George Zimmerman is a Super-Secret Agent, planted in a gated community waiting for his perfect opportunity to confront a young black male and then shoot him dead. If he really is guilty, He either is a Super-Secret Agent who has practiced passing the detector, or he has giant big ones for agreeing to take the test knowing he’s guilty. My view isn’t clouded; I say he has small balls and no “beat the test” training.

06-26-2012, 08:35 PM	#109
NewHemi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 472 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: I Told You So! As a Block Watch founder and Captain, with an acknoeledge card and direct training from the local Police, I can tell you that having to be constantly aware of drug deals, and having strange people cutting through your property, stealing from and damaging your vehicles, and breaking into your home, makes you a bit "sensitive" to what goes on in your neighborhood. I purposely moved into this aging and transitioning neighborhood to make a difference. And I made a big difference. I am not bragging, just trying to make a point, that I believe that nothing more benefits evil, than for good people to do nothing. I refuse to stand by and let things bad happen, if I have a chance to change them If you live in a nice peaceful area, and have never had to confront these issues yourself, you are a liberal know nothing who just wants to fan the flames because a black kid got killed. The story, which has not been disproved, is that when Zimmerman left his car, it was to see where Travon was going, not to confront him. As he was returning to his car, Zimmerman was confronted by Travon, attacked and put Zimmerman in fear. In fact, he would not have pulled his gun, if Travon had not gone for it first, telling Ximmerman that he was going to die. Then, laying on his back with his head bloodied from being banged on the sidewalk, Zimmerman got his gun before Travon could get it, and shot him. An eye witness will testify. And if he upholds Zimmerman's explanations of what happen, Zimmerman should walk. Being black doesn't automatically make Travon a victim, nor does being white automatically make Zimmerman a murderer. This is an unfortunate situation all around. But without proof of guilt, and with an indictment that should get the Prosecutor disbarred, Zimmernan should be found not guilty pf everything including jay walking, which may be the only thing he really did do wrong. He defended himself and his neighnorhood. I respect that. When I cought a group of young men having broken my car window and going through everything in my car in my driveway, they found out that the signs in the yard about neighborhood watch, meant that we do watch. And my gun meant that I was prepared not only to watch but to defend my life and property. When the police I had called arrived to find these three men sitting on the curb waiting for them, with three knives and one gun on the ground in front of them, and me standing behind them with a shot gun, they found three young men happy to see the police. And the police, all of whom I knew, said this should solve a rash of similar crimes in the neighborhood. So my point is this, Zimmerman had every right to assure that his neighborhood was safe. He had every right to carry a licensed weapon. And Travon had no reason, except a bad attitude, to confront Zimmerman, attack him, and expect to walk away. In my neighborhood, word got around that there a cray old guy who had gins, so don't mess around those houses. We made it a better place. Once again, it is sad that Travon died. Any life lost is sad. But just because he is black doesn't make him innocent of any wrong doing. So get over the conjecture, and wait for the evidence to be presented, and then see if real "justice" is done. David The New Hemi Guy

06-26-2012, 09:18 PM	#110
Eddies66 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Rancho Mirage, CA Posts: 1,139 Likes: 294 Liked 809 Times in 394 Posts	Re: I Told You So! The fact that Zimmerman was armed and pursued Martin did violate sanford police neighborhood watch directives. last September, he invited police to the complex and presided where an officer in charge of the program offered a power point presentation. They emphasized that neighborhood watch volunteers were not to pursue suspects or carry weapons, an instruction that zimmerman disregarded on the night of the confrontation with Mr. Martin. Mr. Zimmerman was instructed in the "rules of engagement".