Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??

[676869ford]

All-

Let me start out by saying I don't have the means at this point in my life to build a class car, but it will always be a dream of mine to be able to make a go of it some day.

That being said, thank for allowing me to post on this forum.

And to the point...I saved vacation time this year to take off and spend a couple days at Indy to watch stock and super stock. Unfortunately, I was suprised and dissapointed to see how the landscape has changed! What has happen to these class(es)? I went to see the classic wheels up action of CJ's, Hemi's, 427 Ford's, Max wedge Mopars, Camero's, Mustangs, Fairlanes, Novas, Chevelles, etc....where are they??

I'm a Ford guy and I only saw 3 FE powered Fords in both classes. I guess at my age (37), I should be completely turned on by the late model CJ Mustangs and DP Challengers, but that's just not me.

The allure of these two classes has always been the grass roots nature. The fact that it still felt like it was connected to the days when muscle cars were born. I have a tremendous appreciation for what technology has made possible with the new muscle cars, but they're just too far out of reach for me. I'll never be able to afford a new CJ Mustang or Drag Pak Challenger.

Maybe I'm way off base and just don't have a clue what it costs to put a car in Stock, but I always had hopes that I could setup my 69 Mustang or 67 Fairlane with a vintage CJ or 390 GT combo and possibly afford to go stock racing. I know one thing for sure, I don't ever see myself being able to afford the $100,000 pricetag to get started in a new CJ Mustang.

Now it looks kind of hopeless...

[Ed Fernandez]

You should send a copy of your post to Graham Light in Glendora HQ.Maybe if enough fans do so they just might try and get a handle on the monster that they've unleashed.
I think a lot of others feel the way you do.
Thanks for the excellent post.

[vic guilmino]

the old cars stay home
can"t beat the new ones
why waste money

[Nathan Stinson]

While I am a fan of the old iron also, the fact is its 2011 times change and that is whats happening like it or not. The cost of class racing is expensive old or new so either way you better have deep pockets to play the game.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Nathan Stinson

While I am a fan of the old iron also, the fact is its 2011 times change and that is whats happening like it or not. The cost of class racing is expensive old or new so either way you better have deep pockets to play the game.

I don't buy that, not at all. If you do a lot of work on your own stuff, as it should be, it doesn't cost as much. Certainly not as much as a new FX factory race car.

Further, the availability of money is no excuse for what we're seeing. What it amounts to is two specific cars dominating qualifying and several classes in class eliminations, making every thing else obsolete.

I know at least a couple of old school racers who could, if they wanted to, go buy several of the new cars, but they simply refuse to do so. Instead, they stay home, when they'd normally go to several races a year, especially Indy.

[Nathan Stinson]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I don't buy that, not at all. If you do a lot of work on your own stuff, as it should be, it doesn't cost as much. Certainly not as much as a new FX factory race car.

Further, the availability of money is no excuse for what we're seeing. What it amounts to is two specific cars dominating qualifying and several classes in class eliminations, making every thing else obsolete.

I know at least a couple of old school racers who could, if they wanted to, go buy several of the new cars, but they simply refuse to do so. Instead, they stay home, when they'd normally go to several races a year, especially Indy.

First of all not everyone does there own work. I have seen the bills on the head and intake work alone on some of these cars and it aint cheap. I guess I fail to see the difference in the first guys post about building a car for class racing. If I took an 60's model car and built a class car from the ground up, in the end I bet there would be very little price difference in getting a body in white and building a new car. By the time you disassembled the old car and acid dipped, replaced interior pieces, pulled out factory glass and bought aftermarket because it is lighter all the tricks you do to them to make the old car as nice as a lot of them that are out there it would cost a ton of money. Dont get me wrong I respect the old stuff, hell some of those cars are as nice as show cars, but if I was starting from scratch I know which way I would go.

[davidhuff]

Originally Posted by vic guilmino

the old cars stay home
can"t beat the new ones
why waste money

In the Stock Eliminator Final was a 2009 DP and a 2000 Chevy Z28 and it sure looks like the older cars can compete to me.

[NewHemi]

David Huff got it right, there was an "old car" in the final.

In fact as best I can tell, only one Challenger won stock eliminator at a Divisional, (Dodge Challenger 5.7 at Noble OK last year) and now only one Challenger has won Stock Eliminator at a National (Dodge Challenger 360 in Indy )...

So this year, except for Indy, all of the Divional winners, and all of the other Nationals winners were either Fords, or older cars.

Challengers are NOT a huge problem, and most racers (defined as people who actually compete on the track and not just whine and moan on the keyboard when they actually have no skin in the game......) have really never actually been beaten by a Challenger Drag Pak.

And apparently NOBODY has yet figured out that Supercharged cars have a dramatic advantage over naturally aspirated cars. And the Fords are the only one who run Supercharged cars.

And has anyone noticed that Challengers now run only A/SA, AA/SA and a middle class like F/SA, but the Fords are all over the place, up and down the classes...

Were the new cars factored correctly? No. But lots of cars in the past weren't either. So what really is the point?

Time to give the Challengers a break, and start bashing on FORD for a change.

David
TheNew Hemi Guy

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by NewHemi

David Huff got it right, there was an "old car" in the final.

In fact as best I can tell, only one Challenger won stock eliminator at a Divisional, (Dodge Challenger 5.7 at Noble OK last year) and now only one Challenger has won Stock Eliminator at a National (Dodge Challenger 360 in Indy )...

So this year, except for Indy, all of the Divional winners, and all of the other Nationals winners were either Fords, or older cars.

Challengers are NOT a huge problem, and most racers (defined as people who actually compete on the track and not just whine and moan on the keyboard when they actually have no skin in the game......) have really never actually been beaten by a Challenger Drag Pak.

And apparently NOBODY has yet figured out that Supercharged cars have a dramatic advantage over naturally aspirated cars. And the Fords are the only one who run Supercharged cars.

And has anyone noticed that Challengers now run only A/SA, AA/SA and a middle class like F/SA, but the Fords are all over the place, up and down the classes...

Were the new cars factored correctly? No. But lots of cars in the past weren't either. So what really is the point?

Time to give the Challengers a break, and start bashing on FORD for a change.

David
TheNew Hemi Guy

David, so you don't like racing against the Mustangs and their superchargers. Most of us think there's not much difference racing against the Challengers or the Mustangs. You either get out run by 5 tenths or 7 tenths. Why don't you do something constructive that would benefit everyone and lobby for FX classes for the new cars. AA through D with AA reserved for blown cars.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by NewHemi

David Huff got it right, there was an "old car" in the final.

The presence of an "old car" in the final is totally irrelevant, as the complaint regarding the "competitiveness" is in regards to qualifying and heads-up runs. (not to mention more than probable, statistically, since old cars still make up the majority of the field) Just because heads-up runs don't occur every other pair does not mean they do not have potentially major ramifications for how the entire race plays out.

It *is* relevant that some drivers were potentially pushed out of the qualified field or eliminated in the early rounds in mismatched heads-up contests.

In fact as best I can tell, only one Challenger won stock eliminator at a Divisional, (Dodge Challenger 5.7 at Noble OK last year) and now only one Challenger has won Stock Eliminator at a National (Dodge Challenger 360 in Indy )...

5.9L's have won one national and two Pro-Ams this year in Super Stock (Mark Nowicki and myself), and Les Norton won the national at Salt Late with the 6.4L. Interesting historical notes, but again, totally irrelevant to the "bracket racing" side of Stock and Super Stock.

Were the new cars factored correctly? No. But lots of cars in the past weren't either. So what really is the point?

To correct the mistakes of the past, not repeat them.

$.02,