Lack of integrity

[Chuck Beach]

There is no such thing as a level playing field in this sport. Never has been. First example would be the SS/AHemi's at Indy this year, they all are pretty much the same, right, wrong ... Westscott Jr. had the field coverd by a ten and 1/2 until he broke. Now must good drivers feel they can make up a tenth on the tree but a ten and 1/2 is a stretch especially because Jr. is a good driver. Second example would be the fact that 3 DP's did not make the cut at Indy. Seems to me that there are people on this forum that think these cars are so underrated all you have to do is show up and your 1.10 under. Lets face it, if you lose you lose, whether it be by a tenth and 1/2, 2 tenths or six tenths, the time slip says the same thing. Same thing with a red light, if you are -.001 red it might as well be - .500 red, you still lose. Here is another example I will use because I know this combo, these cars all use the same engine combination ... James Findell qualifies #28 with his 340 at -.956 under, Bob Ackers is #134 at -.733 under, Dale Findell is #142 at - .716 under, Paula Cotten is number #150 at - .702 under. Now all of these cars can fit the same class even though they were in different classes at Indy. James has them covered by over 2 tenths. Doesn't seem level to me. Does this mean that the slower cars had problems, didn't work hard enough on their combos, didn't spend enough money, James has an unfair advantage, is he underfactored, no wait, they all run the same combo. I am sure there are other examples.

Just sayin' .... stock and super stock is not a socialist class, it is a performance class ... period. Some have it, some don't ...

The 350 went from 275 NHRA hp in 1993 to 346 hp in April 2010. hmmmm 17 yrs.
The 350 went from 285 NHRA hp in 1997 to 346 hp in January 2010. hummm 13 yrs.
The 346 went from 305 NHRA hp in 2001 to 373 hp in January 2010. hummm 9 yrs.

The 6.1 hemi went from 385 NHRA hp in 2009 to 399 hp in July of 2010. These cars have only been raced over the last 2 years.

The 5.7 hemi went from 305 NHRA hp in 2009 to 326 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced for less than a year.

The 360 went from 275 NHRA hp in 2009 to 284 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced this year.

Looks like the new combo still has a few years to go to be equal with their counter part as far as getting to their 'real hp' ...

Just sayin ...

[Dgal]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Just sayin' .... stock and super stock is not a socialist class, it is a performance class ... period. Some have it, some don't ...

The 350 went from 275 NHRA hp in 1993 to 346 hp in April 2010. hmmmm 17 yrs.
The 350 went from 285 NHRA hp in 1997 to 346 hp in January 2010. hummm 13 yrs.
The 346 went from 305 NHRA hp in 2001 to 373 hp in January 2010. hummm 9 yrs.

The 6.1 hemi went from 385 NHRA hp in 2009 to 399 hp in July of 2010. These cars have only been raced over the last 2 years.

The 5.7 hemi went from 305 NHRA hp in 2009 to 326 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced for less than a year.

The 360 went from 275 NHRA hp in 2009 to 284 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced this year.

Looks like the new combo still has a few years to go to be equal with their counter part as far as getting to their 'real hp' ...

Just sayin ...

And the Cobra Jet is closing in on 3 years. Someone had pointed out that the LT1 were mixed in with the traditional classes for the first 3 years. Also note that this was a fairly new situation for the NHRA having such a disparity on the advertised horsepower and what the cars were capable of with the normal racer modifications (headers, cams, etc...).

A brand new category was created to deal with this problem, the Fuel Injected classes. Your post that suggests they took from 1993 to April of 2010 to get it right is misleading. They were in their own classes for the vast majority of the time until it got sorted out. Just like what we are asking for with the Cobra Jets and Drag Paks.

Just sayin'.

[Dgal]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Second example would be the fact that 3 DP's did not make the cut at Indy. ..

They broke.

[art leong]

I have to laugh at this post.
Does anyone remember the 455 Pontiacs that were rated at 270 hp (I think). The 455 SD in a Firebird ran F/SA
And back then it was go fast racing no breakout.

[Chuck Beach]

So James Findell should be in his own class for a couple years till everyone catches up with him? Likewise with Westcott Jr.

Or maybe they should put Jimmy Defrank, Biondo, Fletcher(s), Richardson(s), Leber, etc. in a class by themselves because they can .00 you to death in eliminations or run dead on.

Just sayin ...

[junior barns]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

There is no such thing as a level playing field in this sport. Never has been. First example would be the SS/AHemi's at Indy this year, they all are pretty much the same, right, wrong ... Westscott Jr. had the field coverd by a ten and 1/2 until he broke. Now must good drivers feel they can make up a tenth on the tree but a ten and 1/2 is a stretch especially because Jr. is a good driver. Second example would be the fact that 3 DP's did not make the cut at Indy. Seems to me that there are people on this forum that think these cars are so underrated all you have to do is show up and your 1.10 under. Lets face it, if you lose you lose, whether it be by a tenth and 1/2, 2 tenths or six tenths, the time slip says the same thing. Same thing with a red light, if you are -.001 red it might as well be - .500 red, you still lose. Here is another example I will use because I know this combo, these cars all use the same engine combination ... James Findell qualifies #28 with his 340 at -.956 under, Bob Ackers is #134 at -.733 under, Dale Findell is #142 at - .716 under, Paula Cotten is number #150 at - .702 under. Now all of these cars can fit the same class even though they were in different classes at Indy. James has them covered by over 2 tenths. Doesn't seem level to me. Does this mean that the slower cars had problems, didn't work hard enough on their combos, didn't spend enough money, James has an unfair advantage, is he underfactored, no wait, they all run the same combo. I am sure there are other examples.

Just sayin' .... stock and super stock is not a socialist class, it is a performance class ... period. Some have it, some don't ...

The 350 went from 275 NHRA hp in 1993 to 346 hp in April 2010. hmmmm 17 yrs.
The 350 went from 285 NHRA hp in 1997 to 346 hp in January 2010. hummm 13 yrs.
The 346 went from 305 NHRA hp in 2001 to 373 hp in January 2010. hummm 9 yrs.

The 6.1 hemi went from 385 NHRA hp in 2009 to 399 hp in July of 2010. These cars have only been raced over the last 2 years.

The 5.7 hemi went from 305 NHRA hp in 2009 to 326 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced for less than a year.

The 360 went from 275 NHRA hp in 2009 to 284 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced this year.

Looks like the new combo still has a few years to go to be equal with their counter part as far as getting to their 'real hp' ...

Just sayin ...

You've got to be kidding me!!

These combos you have refered to have changed a whopping 70hp during this time period to get in line with the old iron!!

Also these cars were moved to there own class for the majority of time that you refered to until the NHRA fixed the HP!!

No impacted on the class for the most part!!

Now, these new cars were all at the very least 100 hp short from where they should have started! From this point the system should start!!

Now they had there fun and it is time to put them in an FX class until the hp catches up to them!!

just sayin

[Dgal]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

So James Findell should be in his own class for a couple years till everyone catches up with him? Likewise with Westcott Jr.

Or maybe they should put Jimmy Defrank, Biondo, Fletcher(s), Richardson(s), Leber, etc. in a class by themselves because they can .00 you to death in eliminations or run dead on.

Just sayin ...

I guess you have to come up with some inane example when your prior post is shown to be factually inaccurate.

Jim Daniels, Ray Barton, and a couple of others might not sweat the Wescotts that much. No disrespect to the Wescotts because they work hard to get where they did. They didn't have the resources of Chrysler in their hip pocket for all of the research and development that they did. They also didn't have Chrysler lobbying the NHRA to let them run engine pieces that were in a class of their own. Oh, and the Hemis are in a class of their own!

Just sayin...

[junior barns]

Oh BTW, it took 10 plus years to add 75hp to the cars you referred to!! It will take 25 years or more for the new cars! I'll be pushing flowers by them!!!!!

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

There is no such thing as a level playing field in this sport. Never has been. First example would be the SS/AHemi's at Indy this year, they all are pretty much the same, right, wrong ... Westscott Jr. had the field coverd by a ten and 1/2 until he broke. Now must good drivers feel they can make up a tenth on the tree but a ten and 1/2 is a stretch especially because Jr. is a good driver. Second example would be the fact that 3 DP's did not make the cut at Indy. Seems to me that there are people on this forum that think these cars are so underrated all you have to do is show up and your 1.10 under. Lets face it, if you lose you lose, whether it be by a tenth and 1/2, 2 tenths or six tenths, the time slip says the same thing. Same thing with a red light, if you are -.001 red it might as well be - .500 red, you still lose. Here is another example I will use because I know this combo, these cars all use the same engine combination ... James Findell qualifies #28 with his 340 at -.956 under, Bob Ackers is #134 at -.733 under, Dale Findell is #142 at - .716 under, Paula Cotten is number #150 at - .702 under. Now all of these cars can fit the same class even though they were in different classes at Indy. James has them covered by over 2 tenths. Doesn't seem level to me. Does this mean that the slower cars had problems, didn't work hard enough on their combos, didn't spend enough money, James has an unfair advantage, is he underfactored, no wait, they all run the same combo. I am sure there are other examples.

Just sayin' .... stock and super stock is not a socialist class, it is a performance class ... period. Some have it, some don't ...

The 350 went from 275 NHRA hp in 1993 to 346 hp in April 2010. hmmmm 17 yrs.
The 350 went from 285 NHRA hp in 1997 to 346 hp in January 2010. hummm 13 yrs.
The 346 went from 305 NHRA hp in 2001 to 373 hp in January 2010. hummm 9 yrs.

The 6.1 hemi went from 385 NHRA hp in 2009 to 399 hp in July of 2010. These cars have only been raced over the last 2 years.

The 5.7 hemi went from 305 NHRA hp in 2009 to 326 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced for less than a year.

The 360 went from 275 NHRA hp in 2009 to 284 hp in September of 2010. This combo has only been raced this year.

Looks like the new combo still has a few years to go to be equal with their counter part as far as getting to their 'real hp' ...

Just sayin ...

Chuck a level playing field is not a guarantee that everyone with the same combination is going to run the same. People who are smarter, work harder, and spend more money are going to be faster. A level playing field is the idea that everyone who works hard, spends money and is smart about their car should have an a relatively equal chance to be successful. One of the new Challengers went 10 flat in E/Sa, my best run in my car is 10.62. It wouldn't matter if I had Warren Johnson building my motors with Warren Buffet's money I couldn't get within 5 tenths of that car.

How can anyone condone these bogus new cars with their obvious bogus hp ratings is beyond my comprehension. Ask John Shaul how he feels? How about the fact that Pendarvis went 9.70 in C/SA at Indy and the B/SA final between DeFrank and Hawk was something like 10.24 to 10.26. How about a decent A/SA like Larry Hill that gets out run by 5 tenths by a new Mustang. I had to run the Firebirds and Camaros with the LT1's and LS1's for years before enough pressure from racers forced NHRA to put them in their own class. I don't think we should have to wait years for them to be put in the right classes. A lot of us will be long gone from racing before the AHFS corrects the problem. How would you feel if one of the 5.9 Challenger's out ran you by 5 tenths heads up and they would? How fast do you think these cars are going to be when they start to get the converters, cam, headers and all the rest worked out?

[Chuck Beach]

You guys just kill me ... oh well, Greg they already can, I have 3 classes I can move around in to avoid them, I did not have that same opportunity when the LT1's and LS1's came out, we could choose 2 classes. dgal, what is 'inane' ? and no I am not kidding anyone ..

I think you have to remember there were a lot more Camaros and Firebirds built back then because racers could afford them, hence enough cars to put them into another class. Not sure there will be that many more DP's & CJ's, not many racers can afford one.

Hey Captain Jack, doesn't Bob Shaw have your combo covered by 3 or 4 tenths? Where is the controversy on that combo. I think fair is fair and it should cover all classes, not just the top of the heap ..