Factory Showdown at INDY

[cambria]

Bruce I am not taking advantage of anyone.I am racing within the rules.GM builds a car NHRA sanctions it I buy it I race it.I have learned that every racer is looking for some advantage and some outside the rules.Just look at every thread posted on this site.Each one of them contains people saying that something is not fair.Competitive sports engaged in by competitive people will always involve tumult.Its the nature of competition.Whether its NASCAR compalining about the body angle of a car,or someone saying HP is soft there will always be something.You need to get used to it and deal with it because it will not go away.I always play by the rules whether they favor me or not but the point is to keep playing.

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Salty Dog

That's funny...what about this from the Jegs SportsNat's last fall?!?!

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT----ET---Speed
3207 Andrew Hill -----------------------------------------------------3611 Jimmy Ronzello
C3 ****WINNER**** 0.081 10.539 116.48 ------------------0.091 10.649 112.11
D/SA Index: 11.55 (+/-): -1.011 ----------------------------------D/SA Index: 11.55 (+/-): -0.901
Prior rounds:
C2 0.034 10.645 105.13 ------------------------------------------(R Lyn Shipp ) 0.005 10.625 120.19
C1 (P Boster ) 0.026 10.643 109.40 ---------------------------(B Plourd ) 0.087 10.640 125.24
Qualified: #21 10.643 109.40 -------------------------------------#20 10.640 125.24
Andrew Hill's MOV: 0.1203 seconds (approximately 20 feet).

Great job on your win Andrew.
with people saying the old cars can't compeate with the new cars, what does this look like?
I see two cars that qualified .003 apart, what I also see is the new car ran it right out the back and the old car lifted or hit the brakes at some point.
How else do you explain the sudden increase of 7 mph on the run against each other?
Chuck

[davidhuff]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

It's always good to keep things in the proper order. The web address for rich guys came after your comments about me chastising folks. Yes, by all means, go out and have all the fun you want with your toys. But, it's totally within our rights to point out that you are taking advantage of your fellow racers. You guys have a willing partner in nhra and that makes it OK in your mind. So have at it.

How does any racer take advantage of a fellow racer if his race car is built buy the nhra rules and all work is legal?

[Nick Heath]

Originally Posted by davidhuff

How does any racer take advantage of a fellow racer if his race car is built buy the nhra rules and all work is legal?

I'm trying to figure that out too.

If I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build a Cobra Jet or Challenger, I'd be an arrogant rich man taking advantage of class racers everywhere.

But if I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build some obscure grossly underfactored "old" combination, I'm just another class racer, right?

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by davidhuff

How does any racer take advantage of a fellow racer if his race car is built buy the nhra rules and all work is legal?

You know David, you seem like a really nice guy but you don't understand how things work at nhra. These cars were put into Stock because the OEM's had money. nhra sold out that's all.

The OEM's wanted to sell these cars. But before doing so they needed really soft factors to make certain they could sell them. The OEM's don't give two hoots about nhra or it's rules they just wanted to get these cars out there. Let's face it. These cars would be as dead as KFC Chicken if they were rated at their real potential. This is the main reason the new cars are in Stock - because racers wanted to take advantage of the gifts. Racers did not buy them because they plan on sticking around for X number of years to make them competitive. nhra simply stabbed it's loyal Sportsman Racers in the back for a few dollars. And, in the end, nhra has lost credibility as a sanctioning body. But that means nothing to them. Money does!

Look at this Indy deal. Now nhra supposedly wants to create some sort of show down race. But they have to create weight breaks to prevent the CJ's from blowing the Mopars off the track. Then think about the hypocrisy of this event. These cars are currently banging the hell out of Stockers in Stock but now they need a weight break for the "Show."

It would fair much better for all of you new car guys to admit that you have a huge advantage as a result of the gifts from nhra. Then petition nhra for your own class. Heck, you might have fun. Run the new car singles in a non ahfs Combo race for class at Indy. Sounds like fun to me.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Nick Heath

I'm trying to figure that out too.

If I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build a Cobra Jet or Challenger, I'd be an arrogant rich man taking advantage of class racers everywhere.

But if I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build some obscure grossly underfactored "old" combination, I'm just another class racer, right?

If you win the lottery?? The occaisional grossly under factored "production" car is preferrable to a concerted effort by the OEM's and nhra to flood Stock with ringer cars.

[C and W Racing]

Look at this Indy deal. Now nhra supposedly wants to create some sort of show down race. But they have to create weight breaks to prevent the CJ's from blowing the Mopars off the track. Then think about the hypocrisy of this event. These cars are currently banging the hell out of Stockers in Stock but now they need a weight break for the "Show."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they come up with the weight breaks because, as an example, the cobra jets are for the most part in
AA and BB and the mopars are not. That would be like asking an A stock and a B stock to run heads up. The B stock is going to want some concessions, which is where the weight breaks come from.
Chuck

[D.Johns]

The 07 Shelby rated at 500 has same rocker arms, heads and Larger lift on the cams then the 08 CJ. I also didn't notice a blower pulley size stipulation on the GT500 like is on the CJs.

The 08 CJ has the same blower as the 2013 GT500 but with a slightly less powerful inlet port shape of the blower. It's a 2.3l eaton roots. The stock 07-12 GT500 was 2.1l Eaton roots.

If a new car dumped 7mph+ they are crucified in the streets. If an older car does it while running over a second under the index "they are being a smart racer keeping some performance in the bag."

Running a new car your labeled as a rich guy, that is beating up on the poor man with no work whatsoever. Weilding a new car that a person is interested in with a soft rating is destroying the class.
But searching the guides to find an old car that is underfactored is smart racing.

I'm not rich, I'm building a car from scratch with some great friends help, blood, sweat and tears. All using cash out of my own pocket. I don't appreciate the stereotyping but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

You know David, you seem like a really nice guy but you don't understand how things work at nhra. These cars were put into Stock because the OEM's had money. nhra sold out that's all.

The OEM's wanted to sell these cars. But before doing so they needed really soft factors to make certain they could sell them. The OEM's don't give two hoots about nhra or it's rules they just wanted to get these cars out there. Let's face it. These cars would be as dead as KFC Chicken if they were rated at their real potential. This is the main reason the new cars are in Stock - because racers wanted to take advantage of the gifts. Racers did not buy them because they plan on sticking around for X number of years to make them competitive. nhra simply stabbed it's loyal Sportsman Racers in the back for a few dollars. And, in the end, nhra has lost credibility as a sanctioning body. But that means nothing to them. Money does!

Look at this Indy deal. Now nhra supposedly wants to create some sort of show down race. But they have to create weight breaks to prevent the CJ's from blowing the Mopars off the track. Then think about the hypocrisy of this event. These cars are currently banging the hell out of Stockers in Stock but now they need a weight break for the "Show."

It would fair much better for all of you new car guys to admit that you have a huge advantage as a result of the gifts from nhra. Then petition nhra for your own class. Heck, you might have fun. Run the new car singles in a non ahfs Combo race for class at Indy. Sounds like fun to me.

Enough already ! ! ! You have no proof what so ever that the NHRA sold us or anyone else out - that may be your opinion but its just that .And I do understand how things work - remember I'm the NHRA shill ..................

[cambria]

This is kinda fun.By the way I am not in the showdown because I am running super stock not stock.Wish there was a superstock showdown,and I do wish they formed a permanent heads up class like the old Top Stock.Had an absoulute ball racing that even though I could not beat that old 69 Camaro with my 2000 firebird.