Then vs Now - What Happened?

[Todd Bailey]

Ed,

Speaking of Rick Voeglin (sp), If you can, can you post that picture of Pete Perry's Vega ? I'm thinking this is the same car that Reher-Morrison borrowed the motor out of at the '75 Sportsnationals in Bowling Green to replace their wounded little 287. This is from the Car Craft article that Rick wrote about them when he tagged along with them to Kentucky.

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Wow! this one is easy to answer, things seemed so different then because they were. You didn't have the "check book" racers you have today. The "stars" then were guys who worked their butts off to build something that you couldn't just scratch off a check for like today. These racers were high performance "junkies" they pushed parts that were never designed for the purpose to the edge and beyond. I would guess that the sheer small number of them is the reason most people can still recall their names. I'd bet for the most part all their work was "in house" who was gonna do it for them? Yes I know that not everyone can build a great race engine or their own car or all the various other things involved in racing, however it seems like the number of "hands on" guys are dwindeling, and that's just sad. Joe

[bill dedman]

Well, as a dyed-in-the-wool DINOSAUR, I have to tell you all that if you missed the 1961-62 Nationals (they didn't call it the U.S. Nationals, yet) at INDY, you missed a lot. Let's see, 1961 was only 48 years ago...... Hmmmm.... I was 23 at the time; ripe for some excitement; Indy didn't disappoint!!!

I had gone to the Nationals at Oklahoma City in 1957 and '58, but was not prepared for what I saw at Indy. The '61 race was the first time they ran the Nationals at Indy, and it was almost the ONLY National event.... all year. There was only the brand new Winternationals, so far as any other National events went.... It was awesome... and stands alone in my memory as THE drag race.... what all subsequent drag races should have aspired to.

As such, everybody and his dog showed up; I think there were something like 1,200 cars in competition.... and not a .90 class car in sight... lol! Of ANY kind...

ALL racing was heads-up... NO handicapped starts. Think about that for a minute... No Christmas tree! You had to actually OUTRUN everybody you beat!!!

That's the "drag racing" I grew up with.... what a concept, huh?

The race was for a CLASS WIN!!! The Eliminators were not the be-all/end-all that they are, today. Yes, there were nice prizes for the Eliminator winners (how about a new car???), but the Class winners also got bragging rights for a WHOLE YEAR!!! Magazine ads would, month after month, feature a National Class Champion who had won Indy.. because it was almost the only game in town.... heck, in the COUNTRY, with only the first couple of Pomonas to contend with.

All year long, you'd hear stories about somebody running a certain car in a certain class who was really, really fast.... but, you also had a local hero who ran that class and had run quicker, so, you couldn't WAIT for the showdown for that class winner at Indy, because you KNEW they'd BOTH be there!!! The anticipation was almost too much to bear.... really!

I remember "Cajun" Marino Monjure racing "Cheatin" Chico Breschini for B/D honors.... New Orleans vs. California for B/D national championship honors.... but a little 232 de-stroker 4-71 equipped mouse motor (Starkey/Jent from Columbus, Ohio) showed them BOTH the way home with his blown C/D (moved from C up to B because a blower advanced you one class, back then.) Or, maybe that was '62.. I've slept since then... lol!

The excitement of seeing Atlanta, Georgia's "Dyno" Don Nicholson's 409 racing the factory Mopar Dodge, and Hayden Proffitt's West Coast Pontiacs was exquisite.... This was pre-Thunderbolt, pre Mopar Hemi timeframe.... the cars were basically showroom stuff, which made it all the more exciting, because Joe Racer could duplicate it without having to have a "factory connection."

Nowdays, very few cars from California venture to Indy, because they have several National events in their back-yard... and, who can blame them?

It was a different world, back then, and Stock Eliminator was just getting off the ground... but as with any "new" entity, the excitement was rampant... LOTS of cars in each class! All heads-up!!!

Basically, it was a time when you spent all year reading about Ohio George Montgomery's '33 Willys A/GS Chevy-powered car in the magazine ads, and reading also, the Engle and B & M ads about Stone-Woods-Cook's similarly-classed, big-inch Olds-powered '41 Willys, and wondering who would prevail in Class at Indy, because you KNEW they'd both be there!

They were, and Ohio George, with the little Chevy, made them all look bad, usually.

The dragsters that ran Top Eliminator were a mixed bag of early "Chizler" Mopar Hemis, Chevy small blocks, Olds and Pontiac powered cars, a few big-block (Lincoln 430) Fords, and weird, one-off creations like Mickey Thompson's Pontiac HEMI that won the race in 1962. (R.I.P., Mickey.)

"Ingenuity in Action."

That was NHRA's motto back then. It was NOTHING like the cookie-cutter Pro "SPEC" cars running today, where so many things are dictated to the builder. If you think that T/F is an "unlimited" class, take a look at the rulebook and you'll see that the parameters for building one of these cars is almost as restrictive as the rules for building a Super Stocker. You cannot tell these cars apart, but for the paint jobs....

And with that thought, let me just say that when the variety went out of Pro Drag Racing cars, so did the excitement. It's just a tuner and driver contest, now. NHRA has effectively taken all of the imagination and excitement out of those classes by making anything innovative or "different," illegal now.

Forunately, they can't impart "SPEC"-type rules to Stockers and Super Stockers, and that's one of the reasons I have always been a HUGE fan of these cars. The variety continues to excite and fire my imagination.

There are combinations out there, still untried, that will blow our minds when they get these cars operational... and frankly, I can't wait!!!

Long live Stock and Super Stock, the essence of drag racing!

Bill

[Ed Wright]

Your right Bill, you had to actually be fast enough to outrun the other car. I don't remember for sure which guy won which, but the Nationals were at Great bend KS (1956?), the next year they were at OKC, I think 1956 was the year Jack Zink won with his 1956 2X4 bl Pontiac, '57 or '58 Jerry Weiderman with his 1957 283" FI Chevy. Zink went on to win the Indy 500 and several locat circle track championships, Jerry got Tulsa's only 1961 409". 1962 anybody could buy one, not so in 1961. Guess you had to know somebody. Red Biscayne 2 dr sedan. I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen.

Todd, I would post Pete's picture, but I don't know how. I'm old. I think that was the car David & Buddy borrowed the engine from. Those are all good guys. I still miss Buddy and Lee. They were all helpful even though I was doing all my own work. Too poor to buy engines. Did have a set of Lee's heads on my last car, 292" C/SM '69 Camaro. David and Bruce Allen have been very helpful to me with advice and catching up with the new stuff that has come along since I quit in 1979. Ditto Allen Patterson. Probably should have stayed quit. Not sure which is going to cause me stop this time, the economy or arthritis. Both have slowed me down a lot.

[X-TECH MAN]

Man you guys are taking me back. I just spent over an hour BS'ing about the old days with my boss instead of working..lol. Yeah Im old but went back to work for awhile. I love these old stories. Reminds me of watching "The Old Reliable" running at Aquasco speedway in 62 or 63 with a DIRT shutdown area. 118 MPH and the dirt would fly.

[bill dedman]

Ed, it wouldn't do for us to get together; we'd have to do some SERIOUS bench racing!!!

I don't know about 1956, but John Zink won the Top Stock honors at Oklahoma City in 1957 with his '57 Pontiac Chieftan 2-door sedan, sporting three two barrels on a 317HP, solid-lifter 347" motor. Ran 94mph through the mufflers on street tires with the air cleaner on... lol! That was flyin' back then!

I've always wondered why a supercharged '57 Ford didn't win that; they were WAY fast.... so fast, that NASCAR banned them, along with the '57 F.I. Chevys. A properly-prepped Torqueflite '57 Dodge D-500 would have been fast, too; it had the '56 Chrysler 354-cubic inch, "300B" motor with 2 4bbls... rated up to 355 HP in '56 with the optional (10:1) high compression pistons.

Lots of stuff goin' on back then that I didn't find out about 'til later.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Ed, it wouldn't do for us to get together; we'd have to do some SERIOUS bench racing!!!

I don't know about 1956, but John Zink won the Top Stock honors at Oklahoma City in 1957 with his '57 Pontiac Chieftan 2-door sedan, sporting three two barrels on a 317HP, solid-lifter 347" motor. Ran 94mph through the mufflers on street tires with the air cleaner on... lol! That was flyin' back then!

I've always wondered why a supercharged '57 Ford didn't win that; they were WAY fast.... so fast, that NASCAR banned them, along with the '57 F.I. Chevys. A properly-prepped Torqueflite '57 Dodge D-500 would have been fast, too; it had the '56 Chrysler 354-cubic inch, "300B" motor with 2 4bbls... rated up to 355 HP in '56 with the optional (10:1) high compression pistons.

Lots of stuff goin' on back then that I didn't find out about 'til later.

I had a '55 Dodge Hemi in a '48 Plymouth my senior year of high school. Thought it was fast until I bought my first V8 Chevy, 1956 4bl manual trans. Got it to go 15.0s, thought it was bad-fast. 4.56 gears and Atlas Butyl tires did wonders for it.

Hmm, I was told the Pontiac had 2 4bls, too young then to have seen it. Still in Jr High (called Middle School now) I did know Jerry, but not until he got the 409". 1961 model, the year I graduated, and started racing at the track. He is retired as a fishing guide in Texas last I heard. Jack Zink, I'm not sure he is still alive. Used to have a museum at the Zink Ranch, not too far from my house. Had an Indy wining car there (Offy power), and another Indy car with a sbc he played with on his own asphalt oval track at his ranch. Bennie Osborn, Top Fuel World Finals winner, when they were held here at Tulsa (1967 or 1968?) lives a couple miles from my house also. Still see him a lot. Bob Creitz (Creitz & Geer, Creitz & fill in the blank over the years, Top Fuel) is still around. Bob was by here (my shop) a few weeks ago. Everybody is getting old. Bob is over 70, Bennie just turned 70. I'm the kid, and I just turned 65. It sucks, too.

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I think those were the innovators of the day, and Class racing was where it is at.

Now the NMRA, NMCA, ORSCA, etc outlaw street car stuff is where the attention is, and so thats where the innovators are

I totally agree, the people around our area, ask us all the time to come ORSCA racing. Thats the happening thing in the SOUTH. I do race NMRA and some ORSCA race when it doesnt conflict with NHRA-IHRA. The



Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

[Ed Wright]

Do they have SS classes?

[bill dedman]

Ed,

The '55 Pontiacs were slugs because they only had 287 cubic inches and no multiple carburetion, for 180hp (2bbl) and 200hp (4 bbl). In '56 it got better with 317 cubic inches, and they added a two four-barrel option (205hp.one 2bbl; 227hp, one 4bbl; 285hp 2-4bbls). But, the '57's would RUN.... with 347 cubes, bigger valves, and three two barrels (the ORIGINAL "Tri-Power", which Pontiac copyrighted.) 270hp for one 4bbl, 290hp with the "mild" 3 X 2 setup, and up to 317hp with the 3-2bbl setup with a good (factory) cam. I think that John Zink's car had an optional solid lifter setup, too.

They had 2 four barrels one year only (1956), 'til the 421 "Super Duty" motor came out in '62.

Hope this helps..