Mopar GT combo?

[Ron E]

Originally Posted by cutta

5.7 DP Engine, only difference between it and the 6.1 is the bore. But the factors between the two engines is much different and more favorable for the 5.7. The 5.9 would be an excellent choice as well and would be the cheapest option I'm sure..

I thought the 6.1 had larger (more CC's) head castings as well as larger valves.

[Stewart Way]

Ron
In the DP car the 5.7 and 6.1 use identical heads, the SRT8 6.1 with 2.10 intakes added.

Cutta
Bruce Bachelder told me that if you were running a car with a factory scoop (in my case a 68 Hemi Cuda) you have to run a motor that came with fresh air so the scoop wouldn't give you HP not reflected in the NHRA factored HP.

[Ron E]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

Ron
In the DP car the 5.7 and 6.1 use identical heads, the SRT8 6.1 with 2.10 intakes added.
.

Thanks. I was thinking production....

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by cutta

5.7 DP Engine, only difference between it and the 6.1 is the bore. But the factors between the two engines is much different and more favorable for the 5.7. The 5.9 would be an excellent choice as well and would be the cheapest option I'm sure.

305 HP factor

If you plan on running the car at around 3100lbs, GT/DA would be a perfect fit for this combo.

I would like to put to put a 5.7 DP Engine in a 96 Neon coupe and run GT/AA at the minimum weight (2600lbs) if its possible. I figure if they can get a Fox Body mustang to 2200lbs, then I could get a neon somewhere close.


Hey guys correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the hood scoop refer to the body style used, not the engine combination. Thats my understanding from reading my rulebook(09).

That's the way I look at it. You have a body "package" which in this case includes a scoop. You have an engine "package". Could be a 318 2bbl that never had a scoop option in my opinion. NHRA has a "GT" class where you can merge engine and body packages that never existed Like a 440-6bbl in a '70 Dart if you choose.
I don't see a rule that precludes scooped bodys with non-scooped engines.
Furthermore, NHRA has a long history (to present) that does not give HP for a scooped car. Look at all the musclecars with factory scoops, 442, AMX, Shaker Mopar & Mustang, Firebirds, Camaro's, etc., etc. Same HP with scooped hood or flat hood.
If I had a dog in the fight, I would petition to allow.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by cutta

5.7 DP Engine, only difference between it and the 6.1 is the bore. But the factors between the two engines is much different and more favorable for the 5.7. The 5.9 would be an excellent choice as well and would be the cheapest option I'm sure.

Im not trying to be "contrary" here or well , but here are some things to think about.

There are more differences than bore, read the blueprint guide for the engine, there was a a "correction" that was an after the fact change to the 6.1 deck height(in relation of the piston) as well look at the CR and gasket, and dome height, volume etc. There are more differences than just bore.

You are 100% correct about the 5.7 that is why after Gainesville (or Original Plan) was to run the 5.7 we didnt expect to HAVE to do it because we blew the 6.1 to smithereens, but we are very hopefull of the 5.7 capabilities, AND we will be the first to track it in a DP car. (in SS nonetheless)

The 5.7 and 6.1 are CHEAP. I would reckon cheaper than a 5.9 DP Motor.

Eliminate the FI system (both need the DP specific and they about the same cost)

6.1 Crank $349 delivered
6.1 Block $940 delivered
Rockers and shafts $40 ea x4
Pistons for 6.1 now $850 from ross
Rods $299
Pan Pickup Windage $500
Heads 2200 (done) less if you take stock castings and do em.
Oil pump 40-100

IF you do a 5.7 the short will cost $1200 and thats timing cover etc, sell the rest on Ebay (crank rods cam pan blah)

NOW , I "think" the 5.9 Crank, Rods, Heads are just as expensive for DP Parts.

You can find the Parts list on my Flickr site.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

Here and Here specifically

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

Hope that is helpful to someone........

MOST Parts you can price on sites out there, if you have a dealer login then you can cross and check avail.

BUT and I will say this becuase they have been A1 with pricing, beating price, shipping cost etc, Henson in Texas seems Ace, Art over there is top notch.

Cheers

Chris

[cutta]

Originally Posted by drooze

Im not trying to be "contrary" here or well , but here are some things to think about.

There are more differences than bore, read the blueprint guide for the engine, there was a a "correction" that was an after the fact change to the 6.1 deck height(in relation of the piston) as well look at the CR and gasket, and dome height, volume etc. There are more differences than just bore.

You are 100% correct about the 5.7 that is why after Gainesville (or Original Plan) was to run the 5.7 we didnt expect to HAVE to do it because we blew the 6.1 to smithereens, but we are very hopefull of the 5.7 capabilities, AND we will be the first to track it in a DP car. (in SS nonetheless)

The 5.7 and 6.1 are CHEAP. I would reckon cheaper than a 5.9 DP Motor.

Eliminate the FI system (both need the DP specific and they about the same cost)

6.1 Crank $349 delivered
6.1 Block $940 delivered
Rockers and shafts $40 ea x4
Pistons for 6.1 now $850 from ross
Rods $299
Pan Pickup Windage $500
Heads 2200 (done) less if you take stock castings and do em.
Oil pump 40-100

IF you do a 5.7 the short will cost $1200 and thats timing cover etc, sell the rest on Ebay (crank rods cam pan blah)

NOW , I "think" the 5.9 Crank, Rods, Heads are just as expensive for DP Parts.

You can find the Parts list on my Flickr site.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

Here and Here specifically

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/newhemi...7623214928025/

Hope that is helpful to someone........

MOST Parts you can price on sites out there, if you have a dealer login then you can cross and check avail.

BUT and I will say this becuase they have been A1 with pricing, beating price, shipping cost etc, Henson in Texas seems Ace, Art over there is top notch.

Cheers

Chris

Chris check your pm's

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by drooze

.... and I will say this becuase they have been A1 with pricing, beating price, shipping cost etc, Henson in Texas seems Ace, Art over there is top notch.

Chris, rumor has it that the dealership is closing down. Hopefully not. If so, Art will be truely missed.

[Stewart Way]

Jeff
Trust me, I tried twice with Bruce. Once over the phone and once at the Southerns last year. I wanted to run the low comp 360 in a 68 Hemicuda body. He said no because of the scoop. It would be no different than you trying to run the SS AMX scoop on your car. The rule book says "Hood openings and/or scoops other than original equipment prohibited.". Just reading that would lead you to think since the SS/C AMX scoop is an original equipment scoop that it can be used on any engine in that year body but we know that is not true. Since it is not true in S or SS then it is not true in SSGT. Heck, if you just read the rule as written what keeps folks from running the SS AMX scoop on any AMX it will fit on? The rule says nothing about limiting the hood with "original equipment" scoop to the year offered but I think we all understand thats not legal even thought it not written out.
Think this also has been tried on the ram air vs non ram air late firebirds since the engines "I think" carrry a diff HP depending on which hood is on the car.

[Todd Boyer]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

Jeff
Trust me, I tried twice with Bruce. Once over the phone and once at the Southerns last year. I wanted to run the low comp 360 in a 68 Hemicuda body. He said no because of the scoop. It would be no different than you trying to run the SS AMX scoop on your car. The rule book says "Hood openings and/or scoops other than original equipment prohibited.". Just reading that would lead you to think since the SS/C AMX scoop is an original equipment scoop that it can be used on any engine in that year body but we know that is not true. Since it is not true in S or SS then it is not true in SSGT. Heck, if you just read the rule as written what keeps folks from running the SS AMX scoop on any AMX it will fit on? The rule says nothing about limiting the hood with "original equipment" scoop to the year offered but I think we all understand thats not legal even thought it not written out.
Think this also has been tried on the ram air vs non ram air late firebirds since the engines "I think" carrry a diff HP depending on which hood is on the car.

Stewart, I understand what you are saying, but you may want to check out Tom Sheehan's pics from Charlotte post. There is a '68 Dart GT/EA with the Hemi scoop on it. I asked what engine combination it's running and was told it's a 360/285. The only car I can figure that engine came with fresh air in is the '74 Duster/ Dart Sport. Not challenging here, just mentioning. I guess Bruce didn't tech this event!

[Jeff Teuton]

Charlie Ford, your guy wants to run some 383/440 stuff. Call me. I got whatever you need. The hood scoop thing is basically if the body (68 Hemi Cuda) and the motor (various 440-4 or 383-4) almost had hood scoops also. Both got them Problem solved. I really think if they would let you run a 68 Cuda with a flat plastic hood, it would go faster.