Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results - Page 2

Jeff Lee · 07-19-2010, 06:33 PM

If you look at your old "Direct Connection Bible", DC never gave any credibility to the B/RB engined A-bodies being competitive as they seemed convinced it was too nose heavy. DC went on to compare the 440/375 to the 428/335 which were classed equally as I recall. DC found the HP rating of the 440 4bbl unfavorable to be competitive against the CJ.

Myron Piatek · 07-19-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

One more I found, on the 1969 cars
1969 Cuda Coupe, 4-speed w/E70 x 14's (Weight #3183 lbs.)
383/330HP engine (Standard stock engine w/440 camshaft, #906 cycinder heads and 625 AVS carb)
Standard gears; 3.23,, Options; 3.55 or 3.91 (Note: 4.10 gears were not part of the standard option list on the Cuda 383)
w/3.23 Gears; 14.67 @ 95 mph
w/3.55 Gears; 14.44 @ 96 mph
w/3.91 Gears; 14.19 @ 98 mph
w/4.10 Gears; 13.99 @ 100 mph (Test car only, with G-70 x 14" GoodYear Polyglass GT tires, (6.90" width x 26.81" tall)

A 69' Cuda Fastback with the 4-speed was also tested (Weight #3279 lbs.)
w/3.55 Gears; 14.42 @ 97 mph
Though the car was heavier (96 lbs. than the lighter Coupe), it was a shade quicker. All of the weight was over the back-end (heavy full glass panel) giving it better off-line traction.
PC

.....and/or the -.02 and extra 1 mph @ +96 lbs. could have been an indication of better aerodynamics also!

Cool stuff.

Direct Connecetion did do a lot of big block A-body testing. Didn't they have a list of cams and respective ET's in a 400 ci Dart Sport or Duster?

Jeff Lee · 07-20-2010, 01:15 AM

What was cool about DC was they gave you a shopping list of parts to have to make ET ranges. If you wanted a 13 to 14 second 340 Dart, use this stuff. If you wanted it to 12 to 13 seconds, use this. On down the line to 10 second range and quicker. I always found it worked. In fact, my experience was I would be on the fast side of the table so there was plenty of cushion. I still have that "bible" and would never part with it. A lot of racing and dreaming memories in that book!
They also gave great formulas to show what ET could be predicted from MPH. Man, did I use that a lot and it is where I learned a lot. Today I use a simple formula of 1320 / MPH. It always seems to PO some people but those that can accept it become better racers. At least as far as the car goes.

Paul Ceasrine · 07-20-2010, 08:43 AM

Jeff,
On the 440/375HP rating verus the 428/335HP Cobra-Jet rating.
Yes, unfavorable HP ratings.
But, in 1968, Dick Landy's GSS 440 Dart ran in SS/EA versus the
Ford factory automatic 68 1/2' 428/335HP Cobra-Jets. (NHRA re-factored to 365HP in 68')
Landy won the class, and had the lowest SS/EA time at 11.91.

With 7" slicks in the stock class. a major problem for the A-Body.
As I had one, and can testify.

I would agree though the 375HP a little high with that hydraulic cam,
cast iron intake and 750 AVS, and 10.1-1 compression.
What is the HP factor now. 350HP for stock and 356HP for S/S. More in line.

PC

Paul Ceasrine · 07-20-2010, 09:04 AM

P-F Flyer,
The 1967 Barracuda 383/280HP results,
Fastback weight (#3202 lbs.)
The car was only available with the 3,23 Sure-Grip Posi rear.
Front disc brakes were part of the Formula 'S' Package, on the 67' Cuda 383.
As well as the little D-70 x 14" tires (6.00" width x 25.75" tall) on 5.5" rims.

4-speed; 14.81 @ 93 mph
Automatic; 15.11 @ 91 mph

* Besides the factory results, I think it was Popular Science who compared both the 67' 383/280HP Cuda fastback 4-speed w/3.23 gears,
and the 67' Pontiac Firebird convertible with 400/325HP 4-speed w/3.55 gears. The magazine (March 1967) also said, the Cuda was quicker.

PC

moparwedge6 · 07-20-2010, 05:18 PM

Myron
Yes Chrysler Did alotta Testing with a74 360 Duster, that Eventually End up with a Tunnel ram 440 S,g style and It Was called "The Red car"it Burned up Bad in the Late 70s when Testing The Gold Box ecu. Also Paul Adjusted Tire Pressures would have Been 35 to 40 lbs as the Tires Were Polyglas And the Work Better with Higher Pressure.How i know This Cause i was Parts Guru at one Of The Biggest Dc dealers in the Country.Did a Few Clinics with Larry sheppard when the Came out West. Jeff Lee i can rember when the "BIBLE" was available in indivual Booklets 1.00 apiece Tune Up Tips they were called.
I had chevy racers Buyin the" Bracket Racer Science".Mopar had the Best Performance stuff around.Stuff was cheap and it worked.

Chris DeGidio · 07-20-2010, 07:47 PM

There were 2 cars then..the red Duster was the 400 cid test mule and the old Flack and Comstock gas class car was the car they did the 440 tunnel ram engine with.They used Paul Rossi's Rampage for 360 testing,ran a 360 S/S engine in it with a TQ and went 9.80's real easy.

Jeff Lee · 07-21-2010, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moparwedge6

Myron
Yes Chrysler Did alotta Testing with a74 360 Duster, that Eventually End up with a Tunnel ram 440 S,g style and It Was called "The Red car"it Burned up Bad in the Late 70s when Testing The Gold Box ecu. Also Paul Adjusted Tire Pressures would have Been 35 to 40 lbs as the Tires Were Polyglas And the Work Better with Higher Pressure.How i know This Cause i was Parts Guru at one Of The Biggest Dc dealers in the Country.Did a Few Clinics with Larry sheppard when the Came out West. Jeff Lee i can rember when the "BIBLE" was available in indivual Booklets 1.00 apiece Tune Up Tips they were called.
I had chevy racers Buyin the" Bracket Racer Science".Mopar had the Best Performance stuff around.Stuff was cheap and it worked.

I started out buying the individual Tune Up Tips. Had probably 10 of them when I decided it made sense to go "all out" and get the bilble. What was it in 1978, $15...$25? Whatever it was, I had to save to buy it!

chris3racing · 07-21-2010, 08:25 AM

There was tons of information exchanged between MOPAR cars and the Corporation in the early days. MOPAR published letters and books with all the information in them. When I started building our Duster, a couple of years ago, I found out about the books and newsletters. I got a hold of a copy of a book on just the suspension modifications. At the Drag Race Reunion in Henderson I was discussing the information in the book with a factory, MOPAR car builder and he told me that if a team car designed something that worked, meaning kept them in front of the other manufacturer's, then the Corporation would send out letters to all of the "team car" giving them all of the information necessary to build and set-up the parts. As he said the Corporation did not care which car was in the winners circle on Sunday as long as it was a MOPAR. They swapped and changes tons of pieces on those cars from week-end to week-end.

Paul Ceasrine · 07-21-2010, 08:49 AM

Don't know if any of you guys remember the Chrysler Performance
Blue & White book (really an encyclopedia with all the special part #'s and trick stuff).

P-F Flyer.
No, the 67' Cuda with the 383/280HP engine was only available
with 3.23 Sure-Grip Posi.
The front disc brakes were mandatory on that car with the 383.
The 3.55 and 3.91 gears were not available on that car.
But, a little trick. If you ordered the special 'Tow Package', you could get
stiffer rear shocks (1 1/8" piston), and short-helper leaf spring, and
4.10 gears.
Not sure if a heavier clutch disc was provided on the 4-speed,
but Dino said the A-727 transmission came from the factory with a
B & M valve body RV/Towing shift kit on that option.
PC
A-727 transmission came with a B & M valve-body shift kit

07-19-2010, 06:33 PM	#11
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results If you look at your old "Direct Connection Bible", DC never gave any credibility to the B/RB engined A-bodies being competitive as they seemed convinced it was too nose heavy. DC went on to compare the 440/375 to the 428/335 which were classed equally as I recall. DC found the HP rating of the 440 4bbl unfavorable to be competitive against the CJ. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

07-20-2010, 01:15 AM	#13
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results What was cool about DC was they gave you a shopping list of parts to have to make ET ranges. If you wanted a 13 to 14 second 340 Dart, use this stuff. If you wanted it to 12 to 13 seconds, use this. On down the line to 10 second range and quicker. I always found it worked. In fact, my experience was I would be on the fast side of the table so there was plenty of cushion. I still have that "bible" and would never part with it. A lot of racing and dreaming memories in that book! They also gave great formulas to show what ET could be predicted from MPH. Man, did I use that a lot and it is where I learned a lot. Today I use a simple formula of 1320 / MPH. It always seems to PO some people but those that can accept it become better racers. At least as far as the car goes. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

07-20-2010, 08:43 AM	#14
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results Jeff, On the 440/375HP rating verus the 428/335HP Cobra-Jet rating. Yes, unfavorable HP ratings. But, in 1968, Dick Landy's GSS 440 Dart ran in SS/EA versus the Ford factory automatic 68 1/2' 428/335HP Cobra-Jets. (NHRA re-factored to 365HP in 68') Landy won the class, and had the lowest SS/EA time at 11.91. With 7" slicks in the stock class. a major problem for the A-Body. As I had one, and can testify. I would agree though the 375HP a little high with that hydraulic cam, cast iron intake and 750 AVS, and 10.1-1 compression. What is the HP factor now. 350HP for stock and 356HP for S/S. More in line. PC Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 07-20-2010 at 08:59 AM.

07-20-2010, 09:04 AM	#15
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results P-F Flyer, The 1967 Barracuda 383/280HP results, Fastback weight (#3202 lbs.) The car was only available with the 3,23 Sure-Grip Posi rear. Front disc brakes were part of the Formula 'S' Package, on the 67' Cuda 383. As well as the little D-70 x 14" tires (6.00" width x 25.75" tall) on 5.5" rims. 4-speed; 14.81 @ 93 mph Automatic; 15.11 @ 91 mph * Besides the factory results, I think it was Popular Science who compared both the 67' 383/280HP Cuda fastback 4-speed w/3.23 gears, and the 67' Pontiac Firebird convertible with 400/325HP 4-speed w/3.55 gears. The magazine (March 1967) also said, the Cuda was quicker. PC Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 07-20-2010 at 12:26 PM.

07-20-2010, 05:18 PM	#16
moparwedge6 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results Myron Yes Chrysler Did alotta Testing with a74 360 Duster, that Eventually End up with a Tunnel ram 440 S,g style and It Was called "The Red car"it Burned up Bad in the Late 70s when Testing The Gold Box ecu. Also Paul Adjusted Tire Pressures would have Been 35 to 40 lbs as the Tires Were Polyglas And the Work Better with Higher Pressure.How i know This Cause i was Parts Guru at one Of The Biggest Dc dealers in the Country.Did a Few Clinics with Larry sheppard when the Came out West. Jeff Lee i can rember when the "BIBLE" was available in indivual Booklets 1.00 apiece Tune Up Tips they were called. I had chevy racers Buyin the" Bracket Racer Science".Mopar had the Best Performance stuff around.Stuff was cheap and it worked. Last edited by moparwedge6; 07-20-2010 at 05:26 PM. Reason: spelling

07-20-2010, 07:47 PM	#17
Chris DeGidio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 364 Likes: 8 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results There were 2 cars then..the red Duster was the 400 cid test mule and the old Flack and Comstock gas class car was the car they did the 440 tunnel ram engine with.They used Paul Rossi's Rampage for 360 testing,ran a 360 S/S engine in it with a TQ and went 9.80's real easy. __________________ Nautilus Racing

07-21-2010, 08:25 AM	#19
chris3racing Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 528 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results There was tons of information exchanged between MOPAR cars and the Corporation in the early days. MOPAR published letters and books with all the information in them. When I started building our Duster, a couple of years ago, I found out about the books and newsletters. I got a hold of a copy of a book on just the suspension modifications. At the Drag Race Reunion in Henderson I was discussing the information in the book with a factory, MOPAR car builder and he told me that if a team car designed something that worked, meaning kept them in front of the other manufacturer's, then the Corporation would send out letters to all of the "team car" giving them all of the information necessary to build and set-up the parts. As he said the Corporation did not care which car was in the winners circle on Sunday as long as it was a MOPAR. They swapped and changes tons of pieces on those cars from week-end to week-end.

07-21-2010, 08:49 AM	#20
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Mopar To Release Lost A-Body 1/4 Mile Test Results Don't know if any of you guys remember the Chrysler Performance Blue & White book (really an encyclopedia with all the special part #'s and trick stuff). P-F Flyer. No, the 67' Cuda with the 383/280HP engine was only available with 3.23 Sure-Grip Posi. The front disc brakes were mandatory on that car with the 383. The 3.55 and 3.91 gears were not available on that car. But, a little trick. If you ordered the special 'Tow Package', you could get stiffer rear shocks (1 1/8" piston), and short-helper leaf spring, and 4.10 gears. Not sure if a heavier clutch disc was provided on the 4-speed, but Dino said the A-727 transmission came from the factory with a B & M valve body RV/Towing shift kit on that option. PC A-727 transmission came with a B & M valve-body shift kit