Stocker Crankshaft Heavy Metal

[Jeff Lee]

I'm talking about people going online with a concern about somebody else's issue. The issue is between the customer and the shop. Maybe the customer wants it that way and maybe the customer doesn't want the world to know about it?
Conversely, a guy getting work done to his engine may be getting some really trick (and legal) procedure done and the customer takes this trick to the internet "trying to be helpful to the community" or maybe "I just want to make sure this is legal so I'll post it for 20,000,000 viewers". I see it all the time. Problem is, the engine building (by real masters) industry is dyeing and now some keyboarder just wiped out 40 years of R&D in about 40 seconds. That's why there are some engine builders that make the customer sign agreements that none of the contents will be shared with others. May be difficult to enforce in court but it does set the tone.
Sorry, I'll get off that soap box now...

[Stocker 2]

Years ago I was told by a techman that if they see excessive amounts of heavy metal in a stocker crankshaft it waves a red flag and they start some serious checking of the entire rotating assembly.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Balancing a 305 crank to 350 won't take heavy metal (mallory) you would just use plain steel to fill deeper holes back up.
If a 350 stocker has real heavy metal in it either counter weights have been cut down or it has way too heavy pistons and rods.
Mike Taylor 3601

[Charles Rainey]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm talking about people going online with a concern about somebody else's issue. The issue is between the customer and the shop. Maybe the customer wants it that way and maybe the customer doesn't want the world to know about it?
Conversely, a guy getting work done to his engine may be getting some really trick (and legal) procedure done and the customer takes this trick to the internet "trying to be helpful to the community" or maybe "I just want to make sure this is legal so I'll post it for 20,000,000 viewers". I see it all the time. Problem is, the engine building (by real masters) industry is dyeing and now some keyboarder just wiped out 40 years of R&D in about 40 seconds. That's why there are some engine builders that make the customer sign agreements that none of the contents will be shared with others. May be difficult to enforce in court but it does set the tone.
Sorry, I'll get off that soap box now...

Jeff
I know where you are coming from and this was no overindulgence of a secret as I have balanced numerous engines in my career. Adding heavy metal is not anything new to any one, but in this case, I know the customer that the engine is being built for and he and I discussed the addition of heavy metal and he too was of the opinion that adding heavy metal has, in the past, been a no no. He was tearing down at Indy beside another gentleman that got the same treat of getting to disassemble his parts for NHRA to look at. And they questioned his having a heavy slug of obvious heavy metal in the crankshaft. As we were finishing up our commitment to NHRA, I did not hear the end result of their discussion. But I have always installed the heavy metal and welded over it not to show. And to make you aware, if I were a shop doing secretive work for any one, I would never stop a prospective customer from coming thru my shop, but I would cover up something that I did not want him to see. If I pay for work, I reserve the right to see what is going into the motor at the time of build as I can look at it any time after that anyway. I dont expect them to tell me their secrets but I want to know that I am getting the parts they charged me for. I dont know how many people that I have seen be shorted by the crook that charged $1000 for a 4340 crank and later to find out it had a Chinese cast crank. Out local mechanics do it every day
charles

[Phillip marvetz]

[QUOTE= I dont know how many people that I have seen be shorted by the crook that charged $1000 for a 4340 crank and later to find out it had a Chinese cast crank. Out local mechanics do it every day
charles[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm, I hate it when that happens.

[art leong]

I once had a story about a "Mallory Metal" crank.
A friend of ours that did some of our machine work. Was pioneering 409 cranks in big block chevies. And he would cut the counterweights down, to get a real efficient scrapper system. He wanted to try it out on one of our hemi cranks. We had a crank break on us (didn't do any damage other than the crank and a thrust bearing) So we okayed the mod. We never thought NHRA would find the mod.
Well John Hoffman (RIP) had a deal with our friend to to work for each others personal stuff at no cost.
So after modifying the crank he sent it to John. John called our friend and told him he ran out of "mallory metal" finishing our crank. We got it back, not realizing what that meant. Noticed a lot of welding on the counterweights. Built a scrapper and put the motor in the car.
My friend calls us a few days later telling us the price of the materials for our crank. This was in 1978 now. Over $1000 his cost for the weight alone.
We ran that crank till the next time we pulled the motor. Then took it out, a little worried we might get caught. We put a plain Kellog crank in the motor. And it didn't slow up a bit.
Everytime we came up with a hairbrained scheme. We would mention the $1,000 crank.
And think real long and hard about how much it would help. We wound up with a few other brain storms, Like the first ever lightweight A 727 (worked great, worth a tenth in the short times) and the first ever trans brake for a Mopar torqueflite (didn't help at all)

[Mike Taylor 3601]

409 brings back memories of one of the hardest balance jobs I ever did,was opposite way 454 crank in 409 took 16 inches of heavy metal had 1100 gram Jahns pistons with counterweights cut down same as sbc to fit 409 block and int. balance.
Mike Taylor 3601

[Bill Harris]

Based on this NHRA tech bulletin for what is legal on a SUPER Stock crank:

http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...9848&zoneid=85

and the STOCK rule that the crankshaft has to be "stock OEM" for the engine claimed, and "Crossbreeding parts prohibited.", then a 305 crank being massaged for a 350 application is blatantly illegal in stock. S/S, fine, but not in stock. Will he get caught? Almost certainly not. Are there a jillion other stocker engines out there with illegal cranks? Almost certainly. Does it make it right, absolutely not.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Bill Harris

Based on this NHRA tech bulletin for what is legal on a SUPER Stock crank:

http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...9848&zoneid=85

and the STOCK rule that the crankshaft has to be "stock OEM" for the engine claimed, and "Crossbreeding parts prohibited.", then a 305 crank being massaged for a 350 application is blatantly illegal in stock. S/S, fine, but not in stock. Will he get caught? Almost certainly not. Are there a jillion other stocker engines out there with illegal cranks? Almost certainly. Does it make it right, absolutely not.

I have been reading this thread and you are dead on the dial with a ZERO!

[Adger Smith]

Question:
How is it going to be "determined", proof beyond any doubt, that you have a 305 crank in a 350 when the casting numbers are identical?
I know an identifiable difference, but I'm asking the question for legal tech purposes.