NHRA LODRS Divisional payout info?

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Using current entry vs payout ratios in NHRA and IHRA, using a 63 car field in Stock

IHRA 63 cars x 135 per car = $8,505 taken in.
Payouts (round money plus Win and R/U) = $2,840 (3,040 in Super Stock); 33.3% payout of entry fees; IHRA keeps $5,665

Since the five lower Sportsman Eliminators (Stk, S/S, Q/R, S/R and H/R) are the same payouts (+/- $200), IHRA at that race would make, approximately, $27,500 per race, per day, based on entry fee at the gate vs payout. $55,000 for the weekend. Not counting the $40 per crew member for the weekend. This sounds great, unless the cost of the track and IHRA for the weekend is over $60K to put those events on. It would seem that IHRA could be better served to up the round money a bit (currently, you need to get to the fifth round to break even or a little better for your day's entry) to help possibly draw more cars and make the money back that they put into the payout.

BTW, NHRA, based on the same 63 cars, takes in $10,710 (@ $170 per car) and pay out $3,900, keeping $6,810, making their race a 36.1% payback race. Not much better.

Obviously, IHRA and the track probably made little, to nothing (probably lost money), on the Immokalee races. Though I do believe the low car counts are a reflection of the low round money paid out. A racer from up here would tow 1,200 miles one way there to race, make it to the 4th round both days (if it were a six round race), and actually lose money (won $240, paid $270 to race). A person, even those who love to race, would look at that scenario and say "Nah, I'll pass".

I think if IHRA were to increase the round money, or lower the entry fee a bit (getting to the third round gets you your entry fee back) would be a plus to perhaps draw more cars to compete.

What are the odds of winning or being a runner up to gain any winnings worth traveling very far? Not very good at either HRA's to make/cover any expenses in todays economy of high fuel costs, wear and tear, cost of car and prep with todays rules, and entries. The pay outs have NOT kept up with what it cost to compete today. Dont forget that 1/2 (One half of you) WILL loose in the FIRST round. One half of the next round will be on the trailer after the 2nd round. Its a gamble at best no matter what. What matters is....did you have a great time and enjoy yourself in this game called drag racing?

[Toby Lang]

Like they say: "You can't win if you don't play."

Or as Mickey likes to say: "You can't win if you get tangled up."


-Toby

[skills]

X-tech you have a point,but maybe there is a solution to the cost of playing the game. What is say you got a class sponsor? It works for pro mod, I understand there are less cars but they are running for money also. Say you got Hershey's to sponsor D-1 stock and super stock. You could pay larger winnings and maybe pay more say second round winner gets money to cover entry fee. Not only do you need to bring in fans like myself, but we need to keep guys like Ed racing since racers like him bring in different combos that cater to different fans. Yes we all love the big runs from the new cars, but the fun is can they catch the Ed's and Billy Nees of the world.

[Alan Roehrich]

Sadly, it appears that many sanctioning bodies, and quite a few race tracks, are operating under the theory that charging as much as the market will possibly bear is the best way to have a good bottom line. Sort of the same way many politicians figure the best way to maximize revenue is to maximize the tax rates.


It simply doesn't work. High entry fees combined with stagnant purses and rapidly dwindling contingency payouts are causing car counts to shrink. Low car counts are providing poor shows, and low entertainment value, that, combined with high ticker prices creates empty stands, and poor TV ratings. Empty stands and poor TV ratings turn off potential sponsors. Stack all of this on a weak economy, with high unemployment and higher fuel prices, and you have a good reason for tracks closing, and race cars being parked, or turned into street cars.


You have the same chance at the same money (at least for the winner and runner up) if you tow to Bowling Green for a combo race as you do if you tow to Georgia or Florida for a LODRS race. The entry fee for the Bowling Green race is $50 for the car and driver. The "glory" of a win at a "sanctioned event" will cost you about an extra $600.

NHRA needs to come up with something different. Their current system "punishes" racers if they don't run LODRS races by preventing them from running national events due to a lack of grade points. Honestly, "punishing" potential customers is the wrong approach. They need to be rewarding races for attending LODRS events by treating them better and paying them more. It's a slap in the face to the sportsman racers that "Top Alcohol" is payed more than double for a win and 3 times as much for a runner up finish.


Racers and spectators are customers. They should be treated as such. As opposed to being treated as a cash cow or a sheep to be fleeced.

[Hagen Gary]

Nail on Head, Mike Carr.
Neither offer good return on your money, but at least I get the feeling that NHRA officials are earning that income. You should take a look at IHRA's National Event Payout.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by skills

X-tech you have a point,but maybe there is a solution to the cost of playing the game. What is say you got a class sponsor? It works for pro mod, I understand there are less cars but they are running for money also. Say you got Hershey's to sponsor D-1 stock and super stock. You could pay larger winnings and maybe pay more say second round winner gets money to cover entry fee. Not only do you need to bring in fans like myself, but we need to keep guys like Ed racing since racers like him bring in different combos that cater to different fans. Yes we all love the big runs from the new cars, but the fun is can they catch the Ed's and Billy Nees of the world.

Speak for yourself.....we ALL do NOT love the so called BIG RUNS by the new cars. Personally Id rather watch Ron Ortiz run Ed Fernandez any day. You know.....REAL and affordable stockers.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

IHRA 63 cars x 135 per car = $8,505 taken in.
Payouts (round money plus Win and R/U) = $2,840 (3,040 in Super Stock); 33.3% payout of entry fees; IHRA keeps $5,665

Since the five lower Sportsman Eliminators (Stk, S/S, Q/R, S/R and H/R) are the same payouts (+/- $200), IHRA at that race would make, approximately, $27,500 per race, per day, based on entry fee at the gate vs payout. $55,000 for the weekend. Not counting the $40 per crew member for the weekend.

Wow. That was a pretty optimistic comparison. And the last IHRA Pro-Am that drew 441 cars was....?

It would seem that IHRA could be better served to up the round money a bit

If you recall, IHRA payouts used to start a round earlier, a practice which was discontinued when the car counts no longer sustained such payouts.

Please tell us what the car count would be in each class if the round money were doubled.

It's really easy to spend other people's money. Go rent a track, petition for a Pro-Am event, guarantee a significantly increased purse with no risk to IHRA or the track, and you can reap the rewards from the massive amount of racers that beat down your door.

Again, please offer suggestions for an entry fee/payout schedule that achieves the same bottom line.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

I think if IHRA were to increase the round money, or lower the entry fee a bit (getting to the third round gets you your entry fee back) would be a plus to perhaps draw more cars to compete.

Yesterday,there were 8 cars in Super Stock.IF you got to the third round,you would have been in the final.I'm sure the winner still made about $2000 with contingency.Not too many places where the return is that good in Sportsman racing.There were NO buybacks either.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Wow. That was a pretty optimistic comparison. And the last IHRA Pro-Am that drew 441 cars was....?



If you recall, IHRA payouts used to start a round earlier, a practice which was discontinued when the car counts no longer sustained such payouts.

Please tell us what the car count would be in each class if the round money were doubled.

It's really easy to spend other people's money. Go rent a track, petition for a Pro-Am event, guarantee a significantly increased purse with no risk to IHRA or the track, and you can reap the rewards from the massive amount of racers that beat down your door.

Again, please offer suggestions for an entry fee/payout schedule that achieves the same bottom line.

That would depend on a few things.

1) Does IHRA, the host track, or both have a set price of profit they need to make? "I need to make $_,___ profit to make it worthwhile for me (track) to host an Pro-AM, and/or for us (IHRA) to give said track a Pro-Am?" What is the 'bottom line' needed for IHRA Div'ls, for both parties?

2) When I started racing IHRA in 2002, a Pro-Am was $100 entry, single race weekend. I believe it was $80 2nd round loser, and $40 for each additional round won. $120 3rd round, 160 4th round, etc. Now, ten years later, a Pro-Am costs $35 more to enter, with reduced payouts/round money. Again, not a lot of racers are going to be pushing and shoving to get to the front of that line.

3) With the current entry/payouts, I would be willing to bet you'll NEVER see 441 cars at an IHRA Pro-Am. 300, tops, 'maybe'. If payouts doubled, as you asked, car counts would definately increase. Though, Michael, you know as well as I do, some racers would not support IHRA no matter what. Same with NHRA, some IHRA racers will not cross over to the 'dark side'.

To address your other question

Current IHRA entry/payout, for 40 cars, in Stock
40 cars x $135 = $5,400 taken in, in car entry
-Five 3rd round loser @ $80 = 400
-Two 4th round loser @ 120 = 240
-One 5th round loser @ 160 = 160
-Win 1,000 and R/U 400 = 1,400
*Total payout, $2,200. IHRA/Track keeps $3,200*

Maybe a better scenario
40 x 125 (lower entry) = $5,000 taken in, in car entry
-Five 3rd round losers @ 125 = 625
-Two 4th round losers @ 175 = 350
-One 5th round loser @ 225 = 225
-Win 1,000 and R/U 400 = 1,400
*Total payout = 2,600. IHRA/Track keeps 2,400* It could be adjusted to be a 50/50 split of payout, and what the hosts (IHRA and track) keep. Again, I don't know what an acceptable number is to their 'bottom line'.

IHRA and the Track still make some money, and the entry vs payouts are bit more fair.

[X-TECH MAN]

Remember last year....The "Combo in the Hills" paid $10,000 to win. They had what....84 or so cars stock/Super Stock combined. Thats a really GOOD payout plus the guys who kicked in the extra payouts. One reason the car count was down was there were NO grade points. NHRA has a captive audiance. Its called "GRADE POINTS". If you dont have those then you no can go play in their ball field at their National events. IHRA dosent hang that around the necks of the races so racers are less likley to attend an IHRA points race and the circuit/combo events due to limited resources and that equals less car counts. The "Combo in the Hills" is proof that its not all about the round and win money.