Why Class racing dies slowly

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Roberte, Thanks for reading but try it again. If you truly run Class to win Class you will understand the post better. I have raced Stk and SS for 35 years and tried three cars in one class and was continually trumped by the latest and greatest discovery found new in the tech book. Some call that evolution or progress. When its purely related to bad factoring it is disappointing and costly. I am not whining, just commenting on why class racing has deteriorated to More and More expense and less satisfaction unless you have the latest trick car in the class.

Dick - what you are saying is that you don't want change and want to stay in the past .Should we not allow cars built after 1969 to race in Stock? Sounds to me like you should build a nostalgia S/S car .But wait....even that is based on a bracket format .Not many people know that I really like old cars - but you must realize time marches on and nothing stays the same .

Your thirty - five years didn't teach you that newer ideas come along and you have to go with the flow or stay on the porch ............

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Dick - what you are saying is that you don't want change and want to stay in the past .Should we not allow cars built after 1969 to race in Stock? Sounds to me like you should build a nostalgia S/S car .But wait....even that is based on a bracket format .Not many people know that I really like old cars - but you must realize time marches on and nothing stays the same .

Your thirty - five years didn't teach you that newer ideas come along and you have to go with the flow or stay on the porch ............

FYI NSS is run on a index system, there are no dial downs as in Stock racing.

JimR

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Dick - what you are saying is that you don't want change and want to stay in the past .Should we not allow cars built after 1969 to race in Stock? Sounds to me like you should build a nostalgia S/S car .But wait....even that is based on a bracket format .Not many people know that I really like old cars - but you must realize time marches on and nothing stays the same .

Your thirty - five years didn't teach you that newer ideas come along and you have to go with the flow or stay on the porch ............

Jack, what 35 years taught me is that every year there is a new crop of weak factors to contend with in class if you like to win heads up class. It takes quite a few people complaining before new injected classes were established, New car classes, This issue affects ALL racers in Stk and SS. Building a new weaker factored car is expensive if that's the definition of going with the flow. In regard to "nothing staying the same, I do agree. The uneven factoring just continues get worse to affect who CAN win a class. I give you credit for building a new class car and wish you the best. Hope the cars become closely factored to increase the fun.
Dial in can be won by even the heaviest factored old cars if they qualify. As long as Class is LB per "factored HP" mainly the factoring affects who can win the most in classes.

[farmco r/sa]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Back when NHRA started and Class racing was a main part of the program there were only so many cars to race. That number of fords, Chryslers, chevies Pontiacs and oldsmobiles were factored by the factory hp ratings. Some became winners some losers.
People became excited and chose winning combinations from their favorite brand.
Lets say there were 40 cars that had readily available pistons, cams, headers etc.
Lest say with 40 years each year 40 more motor, chassis combinations were available, 1600 Combinations. More development of Cams headers, tires have made it possible to outfit about any motor with racing parts.
If you built a 1955 chevy or ford by the time it was 1970 every year a new, "better" combination could be used. You had a decision. Could you afford to sell and build new? Some did this and became dominant. Those left with the lesser competitive cars have had to suck it up and be satisfied to race the bracket portion of the racing if they could qualify.
NHRA with their light factoring for new combinations, 400 motor, injected motors, all the way to COPO or Blown cars have continued this extinction of hard working car owners who could never hope to keep up with a more lightly factored car. It happened every year and hundreds of people lose their edge in class and become disappointed that they cannot afford to keep up. Some quit, some just race less, some develop the attitude that they should USE the factoring weakness to develop a "one of a kind" to rub it in someones face by qualifying #1 or mashing their former classmates with their bogus combination. Sometimes they get factored and then THEY are mad because now its their turn to be stuck with an also ran.
This is why I believe that when Mod was stopped the only continually level sportsman classes were destroyed. LB/CI with spec limits is the only way to continue to enjoy your chances of winning a class with fellow racers.
Too Many Classes only was a form of allowing more $paying entrants who didn't realize it but they were attempting to create a place they could shine with their hard work by hiding from other bogus combinations.
Think about it and you will understand our position in Stk and SS racing. Even combinations or one combination classes were always competitive and fun till someone produced something unfactored or outside the understanding at the time which produced a killer car. Then the class had to become ALL the newer find or no one else could hope to be successful with just their hard work. Money to buy new car, Money to sell old cars at a loss and disappointment were the results.
We need a Level playing field class system not based on someone's Guess of HP. Not with apples running oranges but 350 running 350 at same wts and equipment. You choose the way its done, Spec, Crate, Sealed motor or..... Modified Eliminator.
Thanks for reading.

Dick. I really admire you effort and passion on this
subject. You very much speak your mind and I feel
you are often out numbered and beat up on this forum.
I think it is very simple though. Often said, often true.
Follow then money. When the contigency money dried up
so did the entries and passion. Seems that simple to me.
Entry fees, fuel, sacrifice of income, time away from loved ones,all the other expenses. To many these are all
big things. There was a time when it could be worth while
to go class racing. Sadly no more. A trophy just is not enough......

[Dick Butler]

One of the hard parts of this thread is most think that the dial in eliminator is what I am talking about when I say Class Racing. That is NOT true. We can all protect the eliminator Points meet format but it is NOT class Racing. Class is heads up two at a time drag racing. Initially with limited combinations it was fairly close competition. Then with time and poorly factored combinations it became harder for the tech which placed motors and bodies in the rule book at the same "factoring" as last years cars.
I think that new cars are a benefit. I admire those who research the books and find a combination overlooked by factoring but when many cars are no longer present to run classes because the owners moved on to weaker factors or quit due to expense to rebuild -----------(fill in your reasons). That's what I refer to as class racing which slowly dies. The expansion of class choices including FWD, SS/ABC mod cars etc is great for the inclusion of more paying customers but dilutes the heads up component even at Class events.

[Rose Racing]

Im getting soooo tired of hearing this new Mod production with spec brodix head crap!!! GO MAKE THIS CLASS HAPPEN SOMEWHERE OR GO AWAY!!! Nobody wants to run this dumb class! Either go run GM Stock in NMCA or Coyote Stock in NMRA or NHRA or IHRA Class race or be a real heads up man and run Pro Stock and be happy!

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Just got back from the Layer/Doane Memorial race.... You would have loved it Dick... It was a Stock/Superstock Combo...(Put on by Rodger Keeling) .. But the final came down to 2 GT/DA Superstockers... A normal bracket race was going on at the track in conjunction with the SS race . You should have seen all the folks walking over to the stands and fence to see a heads up final ...The announcer made a big deal how this was like the good old days...Run what u brung... Your right on one thing... The heads up portion of this class is ....special. In our opinion, its the only reason we are in the class in the first place. Otherwise, we would still be purely bracket racing...
BTW.. Richard Doanes old car , with Rick Brown at the controls, won...

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

Just got back from the Layer/Doane Memorial race.... You would have loved it Dick... It was a Stock/Superstock Combo...(Put on by Rodger Keeling) .. But the final came down to 2 GT/DA Superstockers... A normal bracket race was going on at the track in conjunction with the SS race . You should have seen all the folks walking over to the stands and fence to see a heads up final ...The announcer made a big deal how this was like the good old days...Run what u brung... Your right on one thing... The heads up portion of this class is ....special. In our opinion, its the only reason we are in the class in the first place. Otherwise, we would still be purely bracket racing...
BTW.. Richard Doanes old car , with Rick Brown at the controls, won...

Like!!! Congrats Rick Brown on the win! Especially cool that it's in Richard Doane's old car.

[Dick Butler]

Originally Posted by Rose Racing

Im getting soooo tired of hearing this new Mod production with spec brodix head crap!!! GO MAKE THIS CLASS HAPPEN SOMEWHERE OR GO AWAY!!! Nobody wants to run this dumb class! Either go run GM Stock in NMCA or Coyote Stock in NMRA or NHRA or IHRA Class race or be a real heads up man and run Pro Stock and be happy!

No discussion here of a new mod class. Only discussion of class racing issues. Thanks for reading. I hear the Coyote class is popular and growing. That must mean something.

By the way, isn't your car a Mod car type?

GO RICK BROWN, A suitable winner for the event.......

[Travis Miller]

I cannot go along with you Dick about Class racing dying slowly. The LODRS races this year at Indy and Maple Grove saw class racers turn out in huge numbers. Maybe it was because there was no forecast of bad weather but the racers showed up to race.

Indy had 128 Stockers with 88 in S/S while Maple Grove had 112 Stockers and 87 in S/S. That tells me (and NHRA) that the numbers in Stock and S/S are still strong. One factor could be that NHRA decided to place the newer factory racecars in their own classes relieving the burden on older cars in the upper classes.

NHRA knew that putting the newer factory racecars in their own classes would result in LESS heads up runs but they did it anyway and the numbers at Indy and Maple Grove proved them right. I doubt that anyone stayed home because their was a chance of fewer heads up runs which of course meant there would be more dial-in "bracket racing."