78-82 Malibu wagon for stock - Page 2

Bruce Witherspoon · 10-19-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Goss

We really need Jody Lang to chime in here. He probably knows all there is to know about this combo.

I have a 78 wagon also, and momentarily thought about building it into a Stocker.

Good luck with it.

Jeff Goss
6990 SS/MA
64 Chevelle Wagon

I ran a 78/79 Malibu for 14 years before I built the new car. The 800 carb is not legal on the wgaon. I found out the hard way one year at Indy after spending the morning in the barn. I ran the LM1 350 and that engine has seen hard times since I stopped racing it. All the way from 270 to 283 h.p. You might want to consider some of the 305 combinations. The dish piston motor still has not been abused terribly.

FED 387 · 10-21-2007, 10:45 AM

looking at the NHRA charts what is the S/SS factor ???? And do you take the numbers after each body style and under the cu in/HP times the NHRA lbs per cu in to arrive at the class or do you divide the hp into the weight to get the class ??? In any event how do you figure pounds per cube shipping weight to arrive at a class??? Also what are the asterisk either at the top of the column or sometimes at the bottom of a column mean???? I assume that if there is a blank space after a body style /under an engine that it was not offered in that body correct???? ------------Thanx Dick

Bill Harris · 10-21-2007, 11:57 AM

You need a PhD in insanity to read the Classification guides... My wife says I'm certifiable so here goes:

The asteriks in the columns denote Stock and S/S. I notice in the 1978 Chevy guide they are screwed up and the footnote says that a single asterik is both Stock and S/S, probably a typo. Normally the single asterik is the Stock column and the double asterick is the S/S column.

The number in the Body/Engine matrix is the HP/weight factor and converts directly to the "natural" Stock or S/S class for that car. Look at the 1978 Monte Carlo with the 305/145 engine for example. The factor is 16.09 for stock and 15.24 for S/S. That would put it in P for stock (16.00 - 16.99) and in N for S/S (15.00 - 15.99).

The line labelled S/SS Factors is the NHRA factored HP. So the 305/145 engine in the Monte Carlo is NHRA rated at 180 HP while the same engine is rated at 190 HP for S/S.

If you pan over to the greyed area to the right in the chart, the data is presented as shipping weights instead of HP/weight classes. So for the Monte Carlo, the shipping weight is 2896 lbs. You can get that same number in the left (white background) chart by taking the HP/weight factor and multiplying it by the NHRA factored HP. So for stock, 16.09 * 180 = 2896, and for S/S 15.24 * 190 = 2896. The shipping weight is always constant. When NHRA gives or takes HP for a combo, they change the number in the S/SS factors row and recalculate all the HP/weight numbers using the constant shipping weight. Nowadays they add an entry under the NHRA HP factor that says when the number was last changed. So for the Monte Carlo in Stock (single asterik) the 180 HP factor was set on June 2, 2003.

Remember that you can run the car at the bottom of the class, so to figure out your minimum race weight you take the NHRA factored HP and multiply it by the lowest HP/weight for the class. For Stock in P, that is 16.00 so the minimum race weight for the 305/145/180 in P is (16.00*180) + 170 = 3050 lbs. The 170 lbs is always added for the driver weight. You can also run one class lower than the "natural" class or one class higher. So the Monte Carlo can run O, P and Q stock. Minimum race weights in the three classes would be:
O/S : (15.00 * 180) + 170 = 2870
P/S : (16.00 * 180) + 170 = 3050
Q/S : (17.00 * 180) + 170 = 3230

Totally confused now???

Good luck!

FED 387 · 10-21-2007, 12:51 PM

NO--absolutely clear--I thought that was the way it went just wanted to make sure that what I was reading/thinking was correct---Thanx for the explanation--Hope to meet you at the races sometime----As far as running a "stocker" what" little tricks??" do I need to be doing suspension wise,gearing,tire headers etc. to get the most benefits---There has to be things that most cars that are quick have been doing right??? I'm kinda looking at things that will get me in the "ball park" et wise without wasting a ton of $$ and 6 months of my life trying to figure it out to be competitive??? Make sense---I think a good car should be able to run 6-8 tenths right out of the box and then you can sneak up on it to get to being a top half qualifier--Attention to detail I think is of paramount importance but selecting the right equipment within the rules is utmost too---Any comments --- And thanx for your reply too----Dick

Greg Hill · 10-22-2007, 04:16 PM

Billy Lynn use to fly with a 78 Malibu with the dish piston 305. He ran it in a 2 door Malibu and at one time had the horsepower at 245. I think the wagon is at 235 now. This should be great combination in N or O. It's like any of them if you want to go fast you have top spend money.

Greg

greg fulk · 10-22-2007, 05:24 PM

387 with the 350 in the car it's a natural I add weight to J lighten to H. after looking @ the guide I think the 305 2bbl in that year looks like the best combo! it's a natural R add weight to T......T is a 14.70 index that 2bbl has an alum. intake on it......& I'm sure someone can build a carb for it. I think your looking @ a combo that can run low 14's without to many tricks....the hard part will be finding the intake.

RocketBlock · 10-22-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387

I'm kinda looking at things that will get me in the "ball park" et wise without wasting a ton of $$ and 6 months of my life trying to figure it out to be competitive??? Make sense---I think a good car should be able to run 6-8 tenths right out of the box and then you can sneak up on it to get to being a top half qualifier--Attention to detail I think is of paramount importance but selecting the right equipment within the rules is utmost too---Any comments --- And thanx for your reply too----Dick

Why do you think a "good" car should run .600 to .800 under right out of the box? Is that a new rule?
" wasting a ton of $$ and 6 months of my life trying to figure it out to be competitive???" Then I would suggest buying a used stocker.
Figuring it out is paramont to being successfull in stock. It starts with picking a good combo from researching the class guides and blueprint specs. Remember, there was a time you were a hero if you could even run the index. Now everybody thinks they can roll out of bed and run .800 under.
This is a tough sport and requires dedication as well as money. Even with a receipe card, not everyone is a good cook.

FED 387 · 10-22-2007, 09:40 PM

Rocket block---In all respect to you and all the others on this forum I just might be the new kid on the block in stock---Just for the record I have been around doing this since 1956- Modified/Comp/Super Stock Brackets etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!--I think if you research the different combos out there that have not been beaten to death or exceptionally soft indexes either I really do believe that it is possible to easily run 6-8 tenths under if you did your home work AND have the right parts too----No point beating on a combo that has been factored to death or cuz that your a diehard Chevy,Ford Studebaker dump truck guy or
that is what is in the driveway so we might as well make a race car out of it or whatever cuz it ain't gonna be competitive if you have that attitude---Only reason I asked about a Malibu Wagon is I have one--Otherwise it could be a Ford Escort or a Pontiac Wagon or a Dodge wagon or a toyota 4 door sedan---If I want to run a certain class I will look for the "correct" body/engine combo that fits what I want to do and I think is gonna be competitive!!!! If it is not gonna be a top half car I'll go fishing cuz I'm not gonna waste my time/money doing laps at -2 tenths under. I think I have been more than fair asking questions etc. I'm not teying to offend anybody or get into a "pissing" match--Comp has gotten too expensive for me and I still want to dragrace so I am looking at some lower cost alternatives--Stock might be for me no all night thrashing---not worrying about having 3-4 guys with me at the track I can run the whole show by myself or with 1 other person along---- See my side of it ????? Comp 387

FED 387 · 10-22-2007, 10:01 PM

Rocket block---In all respect to you and all the others on this forum I just might be the new kid on the block in stock---Just for the record I have been around doing this since 1956- Modified/Comp/Super Stock Brackets etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!--I think if you research the different combos out there that have not been beaten to death or exceptionally soft indexes either I really do believe that it is possible to easily run 6-8 tenths under if you did your home work AND have the right parts too----No point beating on a combo that has been factored to death or cuz that your a diehard Chevy,Ford Studebaker dump truck guy or
that is what is in the driveway so we might as well make a race car out of it or whatever cuz it ain't gonna be competitive if you have that attitude---Only reason I asked about a Malibu Wagon is I have one--Otherwise it could be a Ford Escort or a Pontiac Wagon or a Dodge wagon or a toyota 4 door sedan---If I want to run a certain class I will look for the "correct" body/engine combo that fits what I want to do and I think is gonna be competitive!!!! If it is not gonna be a top half car I'll go fishing cuz I'm not gonna waste my time/money doing laps at -2 tenths under. I think I have been more than fair asking questions etc. I'm not teying to offend anybody or get into a "pissing" match--Comp has gotten too expensive for me and I still want to dragrace so I am looking at some lower cost alternatives--Stock might be for me no all night thrashing---not worrying about having 3-4 guys with me at the track I can run the whole show by myself or with 1 other person along---- See my side of it ????? Comp 387

10-22-2007, 11:28 PM

FED,

I think you ought to take Rocket's advice and buy you a used stocker and then sell that wagon to me! I am of course teasing but I would sure be interested in it should you decide to sell it. I've got a 79 wagon (and coupe) and the floors are rusting out of mine and I'm looking for another one with a clean body to swap all my parts into. Mine is a street car but I really like the wagon and have been looking for a find like you have for a long time. Good luck with your project although I think you'll find that the engine combo's you have available have been beat up pretty good except maybe the V6's. Between the Malibu's, Camaro's, Firebirds, and Corvettes there's not much left there.

Jackie McCracken

10-21-2007, 10:45 AM	#12
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock looking at the NHRA charts what is the S/SS factor ???? And do you take the numbers after each body style and under the cu in/HP times the NHRA lbs per cu in to arrive at the class or do you divide the hp into the weight to get the class ??? In any event how do you figure pounds per cube shipping weight to arrive at a class??? Also what are the asterisk either at the top of the column or sometimes at the bottom of a column mean???? I assume that if there is a blank space after a body style /under an engine that it was not offered in that body correct???? ------------Thanx Dick

10-21-2007, 11:57 AM	#13
Bill Harris Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ooltewah, TN Posts: 421 Likes: 13 Liked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock You need a PhD in insanity to read the Classification guides... My wife says I'm certifiable so here goes: The asteriks in the columns denote Stock and S/S. I notice in the 1978 Chevy guide they are screwed up and the footnote says that a single asterik is both Stock and S/S, probably a typo. Normally the single asterik is the Stock column and the double asterick is the S/S column. The number in the Body/Engine matrix is the HP/weight factor and converts directly to the "natural" Stock or S/S class for that car. Look at the 1978 Monte Carlo with the 305/145 engine for example. The factor is 16.09 for stock and 15.24 for S/S. That would put it in P for stock (16.00 - 16.99) and in N for S/S (15.00 - 15.99). The line labelled S/SS Factors is the NHRA factored HP. So the 305/145 engine in the Monte Carlo is NHRA rated at 180 HP while the same engine is rated at 190 HP for S/S. If you pan over to the greyed area to the right in the chart, the data is presented as shipping weights instead of HP/weight classes. So for the Monte Carlo, the shipping weight is 2896 lbs. You can get that same number in the left (white background) chart by taking the HP/weight factor and multiplying it by the NHRA factored HP. So for stock, 16.09 * 180 = 2896, and for S/S 15.24 * 190 = 2896. The shipping weight is always constant. When NHRA gives or takes HP for a combo, they change the number in the S/SS factors row and recalculate all the HP/weight numbers using the constant shipping weight. Nowadays they add an entry under the NHRA HP factor that says when the number was last changed. So for the Monte Carlo in Stock (single asterik) the 180 HP factor was set on June 2, 2003. Remember that you can run the car at the bottom of the class, so to figure out your minimum race weight you take the NHRA factored HP and multiply it by the lowest HP/weight for the class. For Stock in P, that is 16.00 so the minimum race weight for the 305/145/180 in P is (16.00180) + 170 = 3050 lbs. The 170 lbs is always added for the driver weight. You can also run one class lower than the "natural" class or one class higher. So the Monte Carlo can run O, P and Q stock. Minimum race weights in the three classes would be: O/S : (15.00 180) + 170 = 2870 P/S : (16.00 * 180) + 170 = 3050 Q/S : (17.00 * 180) + 170 = 3230 Totally confused now??? Good luck! __________________ Bill Harris ex 2172 STK ex 2272 S/S Last edited by Bill Harris; 10-21-2007 at 12:01 PM. Reason: typos

10-21-2007, 12:51 PM	#14
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock NO--absolutely clear--I thought that was the way it went just wanted to make sure that what I was reading/thinking was correct---Thanx for the explanation--Hope to meet you at the races sometime----As far as running a "stocker" what" little tricks??" do I need to be doing suspension wise,gearing,tire headers etc. to get the most benefits---There has to be things that most cars that are quick have been doing right??? I'm kinda looking at things that will get me in the "ball park" et wise without wasting a ton of $$ and 6 months of my life trying to figure it out to be competitive??? Make sense---I think a good car should be able to run 6-8 tenths right out of the box and then you can sneak up on it to get to being a top half qualifier--Attention to detail I think is of paramount importance but selecting the right equipment within the rules is utmost too---Any comments --- And thanx for your reply too----Dick

10-22-2007, 04:16 PM	#15
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock Billy Lynn use to fly with a 78 Malibu with the dish piston 305. He ran it in a 2 door Malibu and at one time had the horsepower at 245. I think the wagon is at 235 now. This should be great combination in N or O. It's like any of them if you want to go fast you have top spend money. Greg

10-22-2007, 05:24 PM	#16
greg fulk VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: jackson Posts: 1,165 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock 387 with the 350 in the car it's a natural I add weight to J lighten to H. after looking @ the guide I think the 305 2bbl in that year looks like the best combo! it's a natural R add weight to T......T is a 14.70 index that 2bbl has an alum. intake on it......& I'm sure someone can build a carb for it. I think your looking @ a combo that can run low 14's without to many tricks....the hard part will be finding the intake. __________________ Greg Fulk 308 308X P/SA "ALL AMERICAN"

10-22-2007, 09:40 PM	#18
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock Rocket block---In all respect to you and all the others on this forum I just might be the new kid on the block in stock---Just for the record I have been around doing this since 1956- Modified/Comp/Super Stock Brackets etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!--I think if you research the different combos out there that have not been beaten to death or exceptionally soft indexes either I really do believe that it is possible to easily run 6-8 tenths under if you did your home work AND have the right parts too----No point beating on a combo that has been factored to death or cuz that your a diehard Chevy,Ford Studebaker dump truck guy or that is what is in the driveway so we might as well make a race car out of it or whatever cuz it ain't gonna be competitive if you have that attitude---Only reason I asked about a Malibu Wagon is I have one--Otherwise it could be a Ford Escort or a Pontiac Wagon or a Dodge wagon or a toyota 4 door sedan---If I want to run a certain class I will look for the "correct" body/engine combo that fits what I want to do and I think is gonna be competitive!!!! If it is not gonna be a top half car I'll go fishing cuz I'm not gonna waste my time/money doing laps at -2 tenths under. I think I have been more than fair asking questions etc. I'm not teying to offend anybody or get into a "pissing" match--Comp has gotten too expensive for me and I still want to dragrace so I am looking at some lower cost alternatives--Stock might be for me no all night thrashing---not worrying about having 3-4 guys with me at the track I can run the whole show by myself or with 1 other person along---- See my side of it ????? Comp 387

10-22-2007, 10:01 PM	#19
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock Rocket block---In all respect to you and all the others on this forum I just might be the new kid on the block in stock---Just for the record I have been around doing this since 1956- Modified/Comp/Super Stock Brackets etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!--I think if you research the different combos out there that have not been beaten to death or exceptionally soft indexes either I really do believe that it is possible to easily run 6-8 tenths under if you did your home work AND have the right parts too----No point beating on a combo that has been factored to death or cuz that your a diehard Chevy,Ford Studebaker dump truck guy or that is what is in the driveway so we might as well make a race car out of it or whatever cuz it ain't gonna be competitive if you have that attitude---Only reason I asked about a Malibu Wagon is I have one--Otherwise it could be a Ford Escort or a Pontiac Wagon or a Dodge wagon or a toyota 4 door sedan---If I want to run a certain class I will look for the "correct" body/engine combo that fits what I want to do and I think is gonna be competitive!!!! If it is not gonna be a top half car I'll go fishing cuz I'm not gonna waste my time/money doing laps at -2 tenths under. I think I have been more than fair asking questions etc. I'm not teying to offend anybody or get into a "pissing" match--Comp has gotten too expensive for me and I still want to dragrace so I am looking at some lower cost alternatives--Stock might be for me no all night thrashing---not worrying about having 3-4 guys with me at the track I can run the whole show by myself or with 1 other person along---- See my side of it ????? Comp 387

10-22-2007, 11:28 PM	#20
Jackie McCracken Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 78-82 Malibu wagon for stock FED, I think you ought to take Rocket's advice and buy you a used stocker and then sell that wagon to me! I am of course teasing but I would sure be interested in it should you decide to sell it. I've got a 79 wagon (and coupe) and the floors are rusting out of mine and I'm looking for another one with a clean body to swap all my parts into. Mine is a street car but I really like the wagon and have been looking for a find like you have for a long time. Good luck with your project although I think you'll find that the engine combo's you have available have been beat up pretty good except maybe the V6's. Between the Malibu's, Camaro's, Firebirds, and Corvettes there's not much left there. Jackie McCracken