This is what's wrong with the AHFS. - Page 2

Jack McCarthy · 12-04-2007, 03:47 PM

damn automatic help for slugs can NEVER work... only reports on past activitiy has no way to interperet potential... and the numbers it gets are manipulated by US...

nhra is still beating the dead horse... get off of it

get us a HP committee made up of intelligent people (not many in nhra but a few) and add some racers and motor builders past and retired...

jack mccarthy

p.s. ive made 3 x -1.14 under passes in past 2 years ... DUH

and greggy is right 283's got screwed

JIM MARSHALL · 12-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Hey Charley Bogus,

You really believe there should be 19hp more on a Camaro body than a Malibu. I didn't expect anyone to take it personally, I was just adding some examples to Gregs post. The Malibu guys with the dish piston cried to NHRA to take 5hp off their small cam combo because they claimed they couldn't run with Billy Lynns 79 Malibu. Guess what holds the M/SA record at 1.38 under the index? A poor old 230hp Malibu.My point is the AHFS should get rid of the body specific nonsense. You said it yourself, hard work and money is a great equalizer. When you get your bogus piston back from NHRA we can try that motor in my Vette. and compare the different body styles. Send me your cell number PM and we can talk.

Jim

Charley Downing · 12-06-2007, 12:53 PM

Jim I believe when the camaro started out it was at 235 hp, while the malibu wgn was at 230. But years of big swing dicks have given it a 14 hp increase. If those racers would have been smarter with there combo they would only be around 240 a 10 hp difference from the wgn. I can't help it some people protect there combos better then others. Jim my new motor is on hold right now we are having some parts issue's at the current time. But I feel the new motor will be around a tenth faster then the light one was. Really how much is 18 grams worth. But right is right and wrong is wrong.

AHFS does work sometimes. Jack you think that the 283 got shafted, but truth is it need hp, what about all the cars the 283 beat before it ran into fisher. The only problem is the 360 did not get hp. Jack they had a committee at one time and people bitched about how it was unfair.

Jim 517-605-8309 call any time

Chuck D, Charleybob, Charley bogus and what ever else you can come up with.
3548 STK
Done till mach 1

Harry 6674 · 12-06-2007, 02:43 PM

I haven't figured out how the engine knows its in a Corvette or a Malibu wagon.If its its built with the same parts it will make the same horsepower, not counting a fresh air system of course. How it can use the power down track will be different but not on the dyno.

Patrick Kelliher · 12-06-2007, 02:57 PM

To muddy up the whole body factoring thing further, the 305 in an 81 Camaro was last hit because of an 84 Firebird. They may both be F-bodies but the suspension is different. Toss the whole body factoring nonsense, at 110 MPH aerodynamics don't mean 19 HP. I agree with Mr. Beard, an engine doesn't know what chassis it is in with the exception of fresh air systems.

Charley Downing · 12-06-2007, 03:09 PM

My point is it takes less hp to move a corvette or camaro from start to finish then a wgn. Even if both are at the same weight with the same motor and trans combos you still have the aerodynamic factor. If these to cars were to be in the same class at the same weight the wgn would lose every time. A motor that makes 400hp in a corvette won't make 400hp in a wgn because the motor works harder in the wgn because of poor air flow over the body in turn the wgn may only make around 390 hp to the ground vs the 400hp in a corvette. But the motor still makes 400hp when you put it back on the dyno. Pat and Harry what you two are saying is a engine makes the same hp no matter what car its in?

Michael Beard · 12-06-2007, 03:37 PM

I'd say you're right. That being said: some combinations are better than others. Yes, a Corvette is more desirable than a wagon. BUT, you race the wagon because it's frickin' cool. While most guys want to go fast, there is still a great deal of vehicle selection that goes on because of the 'cool' factor. Otherwise, everyone would run one of a handful of the 'magic' combinations.

You can also take two identically prepared cars - same engine, body, and everything, and they may perform differently on the track.

I have no clue how good the combinations are compared universally with everything else, but some of the coolest Stockers on the planet are Ray Golanka's Q/SA Caddy and Tom Gould's stick Corvair!

NHRA factors body styles, but some people got mad when I suggested that fresh air systems were worth horsepower. I think a hoodscoop makes more of a difference than aerodynamics!

Harry 6674 · 12-06-2007, 04:28 PM

Thats the difference between a good combo and a bad one. The Corvette being the good one in this case. Is nhra measureing rear wheel wheel hp or should I say guesstimating.

Charley Downing · 12-06-2007, 04:53 PM

Harry in this case the wgn and corvette are about equal. wgn 230hp corvette 235hp. Pat I don't see a big performance difference in a camaro and firebird suspensions. Where does one car have an advantage over the other?
Also its more of educated guess, if you can get combos around where they should be to start with then AHFS should take care of them. The problem is when cars are 15 to 25 hp light to start with the system does not work because it takes so long.

Patrick Kelliher · 12-06-2007, 07:08 PM

The difference is that an 81 Camaro is a gen 2 body style, the suspension is the same as a gen 1 camaro with leaf springs. 84 was a gen 3, with strut tower style suspension front and coil spring rear.

12-04-2007, 03:47 PM	#11
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 476 Times in 117 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. damn automatic help for slugs can NEVER work... only reports on past activitiy has no way to interperet potential... and the numbers it gets are manipulated by US... nhra is still beating the dead horse... get off of it get us a HP committee made up of intelligent people (not many in nhra but a few) and add some racers and motor builders past and retired... jack mccarthy p.s. ive made 3 x -1.14 under passes in past 2 years ... DUH and greggy is right 283's got screwed __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

12-04-2007, 07:18 PM	#12
JIM MARSHALL Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Indian Land SC Posts: 122 Likes: 251 Liked 337 Times in 46 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. Hey Charley Bogus, You really believe there should be 19hp more on a Camaro body than a Malibu. I didn't expect anyone to take it personally, I was just adding some examples to Gregs post. The Malibu guys with the dish piston cried to NHRA to take 5hp off their small cam combo because they claimed they couldn't run with Billy Lynns 79 Malibu. Guess what holds the M/SA record at 1.38 under the index? A poor old 230hp Malibu.My point is the AHFS should get rid of the body specific nonsense. You said it yourself, hard work and money is a great equalizer. When you get your bogus piston back from NHRA we can try that motor in my Vette. and compare the different body styles. Send me your cell number PM and we can talk. Jim __________________ Jim Marshall 1967 STK

12-06-2007, 12:53 PM	#13
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. Jim I believe when the camaro started out it was at 235 hp, while the malibu wgn was at 230. But years of big swing dicks have given it a 14 hp increase. If those racers would have been smarter with there combo they would only be around 240 a 10 hp difference from the wgn. I can't help it some people protect there combos better then others. Jim my new motor is on hold right now we are having some parts issue's at the current time. But I feel the new motor will be around a tenth faster then the light one was. Really how much is 18 grams worth. But right is right and wrong is wrong. AHFS does work sometimes. Jack you think that the 283 got shafted, but truth is it need hp, what about all the cars the 283 beat before it ran into fisher. The only problem is the 360 did not get hp. Jack they had a committee at one time and people bitched about how it was unfair. Jim 517-605-8309 call any time Chuck D, Charleybob, Charley bogus and what ever else you can come up with. 3548 STK Done till mach 1 Last edited by Charley Downing; 12-06-2007 at 04:26 PM.

12-06-2007, 02:43 PM	#14
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. I haven't figured out how the engine knows its in a Corvette or a Malibu wagon.If its its built with the same parts it will make the same horsepower, not counting a fresh air system of course. How it can use the power down track will be different but not on the dyno.

12-06-2007, 02:57 PM	#15
Patrick Kelliher Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. To muddy up the whole body factoring thing further, the 305 in an 81 Camaro was last hit because of an 84 Firebird. They may both be F-bodies but the suspension is different. Toss the whole body factoring nonsense, at 110 MPH aerodynamics don't mean 19 HP. I agree with Mr. Beard, an engine doesn't know what chassis it is in with the exception of fresh air systems.

12-06-2007, 03:09 PM	#16
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. My point is it takes less hp to move a corvette or camaro from start to finish then a wgn. Even if both are at the same weight with the same motor and trans combos you still have the aerodynamic factor. If these to cars were to be in the same class at the same weight the wgn would lose every time. A motor that makes 400hp in a corvette won't make 400hp in a wgn because the motor works harder in the wgn because of poor air flow over the body in turn the wgn may only make around 390 hp to the ground vs the 400hp in a corvette. But the motor still makes 400hp when you put it back on the dyno. Pat and Harry what you two are saying is a engine makes the same hp no matter what car its in? Last edited by Charley Downing; 12-06-2007 at 03:17 PM.

12-06-2007, 03:37 PM	#17
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. I'd say you're right. That being said: some combinations are better than others. Yes, a Corvette is more desirable than a wagon. BUT, you race the wagon because it's frickin' cool. While most guys want to go fast, there is still a great deal of vehicle selection that goes on because of the 'cool' factor. Otherwise, everyone would run one of a handful of the 'magic' combinations. You can also take two identically prepared cars - same engine, body, and everything, and they may perform differently on the track. I have no clue how good the combinations are compared universally with everything else, but some of the coolest Stockers on the planet are Ray Golanka's Q/SA Caddy and Tom Gould's stick Corvair! NHRA factors body styles, but some people got mad when I suggested that fresh air systems were worth horsepower. I think a hoodscoop makes more of a difference than aerodynamics! __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

12-06-2007, 04:28 PM	#18
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. Thats the difference between a good combo and a bad one. The Corvette being the good one in this case. Is nhra measureing rear wheel wheel hp or should I say guesstimating.

12-06-2007, 04:53 PM	#19
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 761 Likes: 16 Liked 633 Times in 88 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. Harry in this case the wgn and corvette are about equal. wgn 230hp corvette 235hp. Pat I don't see a big performance difference in a camaro and firebird suspensions. Where does one car have an advantage over the other? Also its more of educated guess, if you can get combos around where they should be to start with then AHFS should take care of them. The problem is when cars are 15 to 25 hp light to start with the system does not work because it takes so long.

12-06-2007, 07:08 PM	#20
Patrick Kelliher Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: This is what's wrong with the AHFS. The difference is that an 81 Camaro is a gen 2 body style, the suspension is the same as a gen 1 camaro with leaf springs. 84 was a gen 3, with strut tower style suspension front and coil spring rear.