Factory experimental - Page 21

Bruce Noland · 01-19-2009, 07:26 PM

Ed,
Only you.

John Warehime · 01-19-2009, 08:34 PM

Every car ever built was a factory experiment.

GUMP · 01-19-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Tim,
The 425 Horsepower rating for the new Mustang is supposedly a best guess figure because they don't have any history on this car's performance. The 400 rating on the 396 is based on 40 years of evaluations. The 720+ Horsepower figure was given to me at SEMA. The most potent Stockers on the track make 80 to 100 horsepower less than the new Mustangs. nhra and Ford should have put these cars in Factory Experimental or a class like AAA, if they were at all interested in fairly classifing these cars. It may take them awhile to get these cars settled down; but they will. Indy should be the proof in the pudding.

Would you say that the factory horse power rating on your Camaro was a little soft?

Jared Jordan · 01-19-2009, 09:38 PM

One aspect that hasn't been discussed in this thread is the effect the supercharger will have on those cars at an altitude track. Those of you in the Eastern U.S. don't have nearly as many of those as we do out West. If you're getting blown off at sea level by one of these cars how much further behind are you going to be in thin-air against a forced-induction vehicle?

I'm not railing against the Cobra Jets. I think it's fantastic that the factories are injecting new technology into both Stock & Super Stock, but I worry that the playing field won't be entirely level. I never understood the uproar over injected cars vs. carbureted cars. As it turned out, there wasn't as great of a difference in performance as many feared would exist. Perhaps this is the case here, though I don't believe it to be so.

I don't currently have a "dog in the fight" so to speak, but 430 HP seems a little low. If these engines are indeed making 700+ HP (I have no doubt that they are capable of doing so...), then 3395 lbs in AA/SA and 3610 in A/SA seem a tad light. These cars will be capable of bettering the -1.40 number required by the AHFS out of the box, but I guarantee you won't see one go that fast for a couple of years. The system remains the problem, not the car(s). A truly "automatic" system without any degree of human input will never effectively maintain a level playing field. Systems can be manipulated. Common sense cannot.

bsa633 · 01-19-2009, 10:10 PM

Exuse me for being a little "slow"..but is it the "Roush car" that will be at Pomona or the "Cobra Jet" like NHRA says on thier page..i am a little confused...maybe this is going to be the same as the old Shelbys..what combo of the week are you running?..small valve,big valve,Dove,Edelbrock and so on..

Jim Bailey · 01-19-2009, 10:30 PM

Jared, That's where the fun's gonna begin!!!! Superchargers!!! OMG!!! I can't wait to get my hands on one. Just a quick "romer' ( CNC ) trace of the rotors and away we go!!! Change the Helix a degree or two ( they'll never see it ) Seal the hook with nylatron ( it's probably an air lock design) and Teflon tubing in the valleys, just for starters. Then seal the end plates , also with nylatron. We'll cryo must of the internal parts then coat them with some type of teflon/moly coat. We'll get the intake charge down about 20 - 50 degrees. Even run it slower than designed, make it efficient out the ***!! It'll make enough boost to blow the crank out of it with VP -C25. Limit us on pullies? Who cares? This is gonna be fun! (And if you think they don't know what's going on with electronics?) Just wait.............

DK FRAZIER · 01-19-2009, 10:30 PM

Gump, You would think if factor on Bruces camaro was that soft there would alot more of this combo out there. I would guess more like hard work on his part !!!

Chad Rhodes · 01-19-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey

Jared, That's where the fun's gonna begin!!!! Superchargers!!! OMG!!! I can't wait to get my hands on one. Just a quick "romer' ( CNC ) trace of the rotors and away we go!!! Change the Helix a degree or two ( they'll never see it ) Seal the hook with nylatron ( it's probably an air lock design) and Teflon tubing in the valleys, just for starters. Then seal the end plates , also with nylatron. We'll cryo must of the internal parts then coat them with some type of teflon/moly coat. We'll get the intake charge down about 20 - 50 degrees. Even run it slower than designed, make it efficient out the ***!! It'll make enough boost to blow the crank out of it with VP -C25. Limit us on pullies? Who cares? This is gonna be fun! (And if you think they don't know what's going on with electronics?) Just wait.............

.....................and that would be the rest of the iceberg thats lurking under the surface.

Conspicuous by its absense in the blueprint specs is ANY specification on the Eaton Supercharger. No Part numbers, inlet size, dispalcement, outlets deminsions,rotor helix, case clearances or pulley sizes. No reference to factory boost levels.

GUMP · 01-19-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DK FRAZIER

Gump, You would think if factor on Bruces camaro was that soft there would alot more of this combo out there. I would guess more like hard work on his part !!!

I'm not doubting that he has worked hard and I really doubt that it is under factored now. What I was getting at was that it was just a little bit under factored (in regards to Stock Eliminator) as delivered from GM. IMO the same applies to the Cobra Jet.

Tom P · 01-19-2009, 11:01 PM

The Cobra Jet really is an 08 Shelby GT500 with less weight and a few racing modifications already done, some normally allowable in Stock and a few that aren't. A GT500 would be legal already, they've built thousands. Ford doesn't really need many of the mods to sell the car to racers who can change that stuff.

I think it'll be interesting to see what happens.

01-19-2009, 07:26 PM	#201
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Ed, Only you. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

01-19-2009, 08:34 PM	#202
John Warehime Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 291 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: Factory experimental Every car ever built was a factory experiment.

01-19-2009, 09:38 PM	#204
Jared Jordan Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 612 Likes: 199 Liked 534 Times in 118 Posts	Re: Factory experimental One aspect that hasn't been discussed in this thread is the effect the supercharger will have on those cars at an altitude track. Those of you in the Eastern U.S. don't have nearly as many of those as we do out West. If you're getting blown off at sea level by one of these cars how much further behind are you going to be in thin-air against a forced-induction vehicle? I'm not railing against the Cobra Jets. I think it's fantastic that the factories are injecting new technology into both Stock & Super Stock, but I worry that the playing field won't be entirely level. I never understood the uproar over injected cars vs. carbureted cars. As it turned out, there wasn't as great of a difference in performance as many feared would exist. Perhaps this is the case here, though I don't believe it to be so. I don't currently have a "dog in the fight" so to speak, but 430 HP seems a little low. If these engines are indeed making 700+ HP (I have no doubt that they are capable of doing so...), then 3395 lbs in AA/SA and 3610 in A/SA seem a tad light. These cars will be capable of bettering the -1.40 number required by the AHFS out of the box, but I guarantee you won't see one go that fast for a couple of years. The system remains the problem, not the car(s). A truly "automatic" system without any degree of human input will never effectively maintain a level playing field. Systems can be manipulated. Common sense cannot. __________________ Jared Jordan 9 B/SA 2024 Jeg's D7 All Star - Stock

01-19-2009, 10:10 PM	#205
bsa633 Banned Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 310 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Exuse me for being a little "slow"..but is it the "Roush car" that will be at Pomona or the "Cobra Jet" like NHRA says on thier page..i am a little confused...maybe this is going to be the same as the old Shelbys..what combo of the week are you running?..small valve,big valve,Dove,Edelbrock and so on.. Last edited by bsa633; 01-19-2009 at 10:40 PM.

01-19-2009, 10:30 PM	#206
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Jared, That's where the fun's gonna begin!!!! Superchargers!!! OMG!!! I can't wait to get my hands on one. Just a quick "romer' ( CNC ) trace of the rotors and away we go!!! Change the Helix a degree or two ( they'll never see it ) Seal the hook with nylatron ( it's probably an air lock design) and Teflon tubing in the valleys, just for starters. Then seal the end plates , also with nylatron. We'll cryo must of the internal parts then coat them with some type of teflon/moly coat. We'll get the intake charge down about 20 - 50 degrees. Even run it slower than designed, make it efficient out the ***!! It'll make enough boost to blow the crank out of it with VP -C25. Limit us on pullies? Who cares? This is gonna be fun! (And if you think they don't know what's going on with electronics?) Just wait.............

01-19-2009, 10:30 PM	#207
DK FRAZIER Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bogart GA Posts: 117 Likes: 2 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Factory experimental Gump, You would think if factor on Bruces camaro was that soft there would alot more of this combo out there. I would guess more like hard work on his part !!! __________________ Doug Frazier D/SA 2038

01-19-2009, 11:01 PM	#210
Tom P Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 707 Likes: 30 Liked 239 Times in 94 Posts	Re: Factory experimental The Cobra Jet really is an 08 Shelby GT500 with less weight and a few racing modifications already done, some normally allowable in Stock and a few that aren't. A GT500 would be legal already, they've built thousands. Ford doesn't really need many of the mods to sell the car to racers who can change that stuff. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens.