Econo Modified - Page 21

Dick Butler · 01-17-2014, 09:56 AM

Randy, any piston that someone makes to fit the chamber?or limited to cut costs? how about angle milling head etc?

randy wilson · 01-17-2014, 10:05 AM

Mike. If need be, I could loan you an engine, but only have 2 engines in the 289 c.i. and 322 c.i. Don't worry, if you hurt one, no penalty. They ain't doing me any good, and will end up being the wrong size for the class anyway. This ain't a setup, just trying to help. I'll bet I could talk Steve Thompson into one last, no break-out race if the cobalt don't sell. Guys, it's the only car we have available at this time. The deuce is up to Rob Nall's shop right now, getting work done in the engine bay, plumbing, body panel work, to get ready for the body shop. But still a long ways off. If it happens, don't plan on having it in New York, or somewhere. Central U.S.A. if possible. I think I could get Eddyville to give us a weekend, but they are now IHRA.

randy wilson · 01-17-2014, 10:15 AM

Dick. I've gave this A LOT of thought, and I say, (now, all I'm getting ready to propose is to ease tear down) any piston, any rings, angle mill, and polishing the combustion chamber is the ONLY thing allowed other then a valve job. Any stroke, but a 1" threaded hole in the side of the pan for inspection to keep ultra trick cranks out. Any size journal. I doubt the $1,300 rings are as advantageous without the pump. Stock type oil pump, no billet. Just ideas. All we'd have to do is P&G, check pan, put a good scope in exhaust port, and down intake, and BOOM. We're basically done. But now comes the argument comp guys will fool you easily. That's where the number 1 qualifier, top speed, winner, and or runner up, record breakers have to have head OK'd by BRODIX.

Dick Butler · 01-17-2014, 11:52 AM

Piston tech could be the more expensive part but if fuel limited to VP-C-12 cant run too much compression...I would even support flat top piston for ease of inspection and low cost so no custom domes etc.

randy wilson · 01-17-2014, 12:34 PM

Flat top is fine with me, as long as it does not limit type, weight, etc. because of not having to pull the head.

Dick Butler · 01-17-2014, 05:15 PM

Anyone else opinion on flat piston versus Dome to get compression?versus low cost non custom dome manufacture.

Todd Bailey · 01-17-2014, 05:27 PM

Dick,

WHATEVER to keep the cost down. Is there possibly a spec piston? spec rod? I would prefer it if you could not do ANYTHING to the head. The more you allow, the more the cost.

randy wilson · 01-17-2014, 06:41 PM

The flat top part could be easily policed, but if you want a spec piston, and rod, you're talking about opening a can of worms. Every engine would have to be completely disassembled. I am against a spec rod, and piston. Not because I have some secret setup I'm trying to slide by, but because tech would be a nitemare. If I'm running a steel rod, and you're running the best, lightest rod MGP makes, they will run real close together. One has an advantage over the other in a totally different area. And ring packages. My 2 cents worth is, a .043 2 ring will run with a .043, .043, 3mm. Now the super thin rings might build 15 HP more then these two combos, but if that's what they have on you, you are real close to kicking their butts. Cut a .01 better light, and call it even. Also, without a vac pump, they ain't quite as attractive. Don't get me wrong, all the hitters will run them, but I'd love to go back to the shop, and say, "All we need is to spend an extra $1,300, and we're in. Beats the hell out of $10,000. The best, trickest piston is about $1,800. But a set that will run real close to them is an $900 set, so name your poison, and come on in. We've saved tons on heads, intakes, clutches, computers, etc.Back to the head. We found if you can't polish the chamber you risk detonation. If you can't mill, if you hurt the head, it's junk. Also, you have to remove the head to check both. Just letting you know the obstacles we faced, and addressed.

randy wilson · 01-18-2014, 09:15 AM

Anyone getting any feed back on the max lift of the cam? Here's my thoughts. Has to be big enough to allow performance, and RPM< but not so large to cause valve train problems. .700, or .750 is considered rather small today.

Dick Butler · 01-21-2014, 07:25 AM

I have called two NHRA officials to have them read the thread. Another site for Comp racing is discussing a basic class for Comp very similar.Sounds like both eliminators are needing a cheap class to bring out parked racers and have fun...

01-17-2014, 09:56 AM	#201
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Randy, any piston that someone makes to fit the chamber?or limited to cut costs? how about angle milling head etc?

01-17-2014, 10:05 AM	#202
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Mike. If need be, I could loan you an engine, but only have 2 engines in the 289 c.i. and 322 c.i. Don't worry, if you hurt one, no penalty. They ain't doing me any good, and will end up being the wrong size for the class anyway. This ain't a setup, just trying to help. I'll bet I could talk Steve Thompson into one last, no break-out race if the cobalt don't sell. Guys, it's the only car we have available at this time. The deuce is up to Rob Nall's shop right now, getting work done in the engine bay, plumbing, body panel work, to get ready for the body shop. But still a long ways off. If it happens, don't plan on having it in New York, or somewhere. Central U.S.A. if possible. I think I could get Eddyville to give us a weekend, but they are now IHRA. __________________ don,t have one

01-17-2014, 10:15 AM	#203
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Dick. I've gave this A LOT of thought, and I say, (now, all I'm getting ready to propose is to ease tear down) any piston, any rings, angle mill, and polishing the combustion chamber is the ONLY thing allowed other then a valve job. Any stroke, but a 1" threaded hole in the side of the pan for inspection to keep ultra trick cranks out. Any size journal. I doubt the $1,300 rings are as advantageous without the pump. Stock type oil pump, no billet. Just ideas. All we'd have to do is P&G, check pan, put a good scope in exhaust port, and down intake, and BOOM. We're basically done. But now comes the argument comp guys will fool you easily. That's where the number 1 qualifier, top speed, winner, and or runner up, record breakers have to have head OK'd by BRODIX. __________________ don,t have one

01-17-2014, 11:52 AM	#204
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Piston tech could be the more expensive part but if fuel limited to VP-C-12 cant run too much compression...I would even support flat top piston for ease of inspection and low cost so no custom domes etc.

01-17-2014, 12:34 PM	#205
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Flat top is fine with me, as long as it does not limit type, weight, etc. because of not having to pull the head. __________________ don,t have one

01-17-2014, 05:15 PM	#206
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Anyone else opinion on flat piston versus Dome to get compression?versus low cost non custom dome manufacture.

01-17-2014, 05:27 PM	#207
Todd Bailey Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 311 Likes: 29 Liked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Dick, WHATEVER to keep the cost down. Is there possibly a spec piston? spec rod? I would prefer it if you could not do ANYTHING to the head. The more you allow, the more the cost.

01-17-2014, 06:41 PM	#208
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Econo Modified The flat top part could be easily policed, but if you want a spec piston, and rod, you're talking about opening a can of worms. Every engine would have to be completely disassembled. I am against a spec rod, and piston. Not because I have some secret setup I'm trying to slide by, but because tech would be a nitemare. If I'm running a steel rod, and you're running the best, lightest rod MGP makes, they will run real close together. One has an advantage over the other in a totally different area. And ring packages. My 2 cents worth is, a .043 2 ring will run with a .043, .043, 3mm. Now the super thin rings might build 15 HP more then these two combos, but if that's what they have on you, you are real close to kicking their butts. Cut a .01 better light, and call it even. Also, without a vac pump, they ain't quite as attractive. Don't get me wrong, all the hitters will run them, but I'd love to go back to the shop, and say, "All we need is to spend an extra $1,300, and we're in. Beats the hell out of $10,000. The best, trickest piston is about $1,800. But a set that will run real close to them is an $900 set, so name your poison, and come on in. We've saved tons on heads, intakes, clutches, computers, etc.Back to the head. We found if you can't polish the chamber you risk detonation. If you can't mill, if you hurt the head, it's junk. Also, you have to remove the head to check both. Just letting you know the obstacles we faced, and addressed. __________________ don,t have one Last edited by randy wilson; 01-17-2014 at 06:48 PM.

01-18-2014, 09:15 AM	#209
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Econo Modified Anyone getting any feed back on the max lift of the cam? Here's my thoughts. Has to be big enough to allow performance, and RPM< but not so large to cause valve train problems. .700, or .750 is considered rather small today. __________________ don,t have one

01-21-2014, 07:25 AM	#210
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Econo Modified I have called two NHRA officials to have them read the thread. Another site for Comp racing is discussing a basic class for Comp very similar.Sounds like both eliminators are needing a cheap class to bring out parked racers and have fun...