ATTN Sportsman Council Members and Racers

[Dick Butler]

If we look at Bowling Green Qual sheet. A .2 move of the index only cut one SS of 60 racers. He probably had problems.
In Stock of the 64 cars running only the bottom 2 cars would have been unable to hit the index and they were having problems.

If the indexes were moved down .5 then only number 60 down cars would have been affected in time trials in stock. SS would have affected #54 through 60 making them appear to not run index.

Or of 124 cars time trials listed only 3 cars would have been affected in eliminations by the .2 change of index and we can be fairly sure not all got a good run...

On the other change the quickest way to help the AHFS is to move the trigger as done by the committee.If it hit the top 1/2 of the qualifiers it would just make the whole field more evenly factored. This only affects people who NEED to see the big - numbers and the tougher it gets the more the smaller amount under is respected....its just habit at this point to Need to see big - numbers..
My opinion the committee made a conservative move in the best direction for the entire interest of the racers.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Michael -Very good point, however if the indexes were lowered a few tenths we could go back to flat out class racing and stop sandbagging .............

They've got years and years of data compiled now. They could look at an arbitrary baseline and refactor *all* cars once and be done with it.

If you race flat out, your car gets factored properly, and then you can race flat out. It doesn't make sense to me to make a car go faster just to slow it down to avoid a HP hit. Save the money in the first place and put it in the gas tank.

-=shrug=- Don't matter to me, I guess. I just enjoy racing.

[Mike Pearson]

Jack,
I have been racing SS since 1977. I can not remenber having my index raised ever.

Dick,
If you do the math with the proposed changes in index and the change in the trigger they just raised the trigger by .010 not lowered it all this will do is widen the gap of the under factored combinations.

[Dick Butler]

Mike you are correct it softened the factoring instead of tightening it. I bet they misread it too. The trigger needed to be moved the same or moved more to change the factoring point . Thanks I did mis read it....

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

first of all... i cannot find fredjohnston on a current qualifying sheet ???

second - i (for one) asked & agree with the index reduction... unless you are under 25, or ignorant to the history of the class you race you KNOW nhra last RAISED the indexes (1980something) and since then have been doling out FREE ET with enhancements like the government spends money... if you cant run the index you probably cant change you own oil... besides we all thought it was a done deal last season we even ran off new indexes at ohio valley doorslammers last october but it wasnt an across the board reduction which i think it should be.

third - as far as RULE (not index) changes my hopes were that a sportsman council would squash all the internet whiners and intelligent heads would prevail and STOP changing a rule every week... im tired of everyone who thinks because they want a rule changed (or better yet they already are breaking one and want us to wrap our arms around it) it is thier RIGHT to have the rules fit thier agenda.

last - we have a pretty good group here...it cant be any worse than glendora's bull****.

jack mccarthy

Amen x2 for the day.

What is the advantage of NOT rasing the indexes?We have gotten all sorts of parts aproved, and liberal rule changes in the last 20 years, it's is about time. For the guys that are running the index and cant go faster. The Afhs will give you HP back to help. That is why it is there. If there is a guy that runs a second under in your class, and you run the index, you better work harder, or find a new class. I'm happy that the counsel is getting things done. I hope we can draw a line in the sand and no more rule changes for awhile.

[Chuck Beach]

Jack,
Amen X3, Todd you are also on the money, Dick I don't see you on the qualifying sheet but you always have a lot to say ... please feel free to elaborate ... 1664SSJA, I have been racing stock eliminator since 1975, I very rarely see new faces, If I do, it is a current stock eliminator's son, daughter, brother in law, etc. If you can't run the index in stock or super stock or you don't have the money maybe these classes aren't for you. This is not a socialistic class, IT IS A PERFORMANCE CLASS. Try bracket racing ....

[Dick Butler]

Chuck, It was pointed out that if a car had to run 1.4 under an old index. Lets use 11.00 index he had to run 9.6 to trigger the hp hit. If the new index is moved to 10.80 and the trigger -1.3 under that he now has to run FASTER or 9.5 to get hit. I believe they missed this in the meeting and intended to make the AHFS tighter which would have required making the trigger -1.1 under (the new index) or 9.70 to be factored.

And Nope, not on the Q sheet at this time. Havent actively raced since 98 Nationals. 10 years WOW that is a long time without doing any class racing...If I could get my drivers (kids) back interested TOP/STK would be our goal.

[Dick Butler]

Discussing correcting the factoring problem is one part of the discussion. Of the people who CAN afford to race in Stock or SS and plan to stay competitive that is one discussion.
The expense of Stock and SS racing is another issue. Making the bar higher for recreation of better factoring can affect the cost. Then its back to should everyone be able to "afford" current Stock or SS? Should the entry level classes be a different class like old pure stock? The current costs and class descriptions are not for everyone it is true.... Local tracks still run bracket Cheaper programs close to home and the only difference from current points meets is the friends might not be there. I am not sure the programs of Stock and SS could or should be ruled by a cost number to make it "affordable" by more people.
Maybe a fresh look at specs legal in a class like Spec motor class only one car for everyone would work for new people.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ed OBrien

Jack and the other fast guys
Try putting real lifters and stock rockers back on and see how fast you are ! The rules got changed because
some fast cheating dick head got caught with bogas parts and kissed *** until they got ok'd PERIOD !!
Now everyone that wants a fair playing field is a crybaby to you guys so lets roll back the rules to match the last index change and STOCK rockers and push rods . My rep traded for a west coast 440 6-pack cars a few years ago and raced it and what are the chance's it had a real 440 intake on it ? He also helped form the IHRA top stock boys club so how in touch with the little guys do you think he is .This is a joke council members be proud your helping our sport . Now here's the best part guess who will get tore down first in div 4 without setting a record me 5 under on a good day or our Council Member ? Have a nice day

I always hear the same rhetoric or complaints about cams, lifters,valves, etc... Guess what...the rules have been changed by NHRA and IHRA adopts most of the rules, therefore, like it or not, learn to live with them or go bracket racing. NHRA is not going to revert to the old rules... these are the facts... do a reality check and quit living in a fantasy world and quit dreaming. What racers have to look at is for solutions to the problems, however, with all the bickering and accusations, the S/SS community gives the appearance of a whole bunch of bratty kids.

Ed, we all know you are talking about Jeff Teuton...Jeff is in touch with all the racers and he has always had an open door to help and talk about any issues with any racer. By the way, Jeff was one of the last ones that got involved with the creation of the Top Stock class.