Index Changes - Page 3

Evan Smith · 10-30-2008, 05:13 PM

To all the racers,

Woodro and Greg couldn't have stated it better. We have gone to bat and spent many hours debating issues to better the sport, but in most cases our requests have fallen on deaf ears. Most of us feel as if we wasted our time. The big dogs ensured us that we'd make a difference, but i don't see how. At this point, it would be my suggestion for anyone interested in seeing either lowered indexes or raised triggers to flood your division office, as well as the Glendora office, with emails, letters and phone calls.

I hate to burden the division offices with this stuff, but as a community we now need to band together and voice an opinion.

Thanks,

Evan

stockracer · 10-30-2008, 05:36 PM

Maybe the final call is left up to the big guys for just this reason. Car counts are down, Fuel cost are sky high, and people are droping out of class racing. But now we want to make it harder to be competitive, and over all increase the expenses of goin to the track. Thank god there was at least one division that put someone in the committe that has a clue what this rule change would have done! Thanks Glendora for not allowing this to take place! If were not goin to lower the trigger then I think the bottom trigger should change. Any run less then -.600 should get automatic hp back, Get those combos so it doesnt cost 25k to go 1.1 under! Id hate to know what it cost to get a car the will run 1.61 under! And dont give me the "hard work and long nights" speech on goin fast. Nothing makes a car go fast but money, or soft combos!

Mike Voth · 10-30-2008, 05:52 PM

Lyn - I couldn't agree with you more!!!! Or even a half cc small as was the case for us in KC!!

Ed Wright · 10-30-2008, 05:54 PM

It doesn't cost $25,000.00 to run a second under. Probably would if you have to hire everything done, but not if you know how to do things yourself.

Evan Smith · 10-30-2008, 06:09 PM

Stockracer,

The point of the matter is that we're not just talking about the elite, fast cars in Stock. The weak trigger affects many combinations, some not so fast. At just about any national event you can watch the top 33% of the field sandbag so as not to go 1.15 under. That is not racing.

The fact is, the NHRA has allowed many modifications over the last five (or so) years, but has not updated the AHFS in a favorable manner to "factor" in for the performance gains from said modifications. I don't think we need to shave the indexes and hurt the slow guys. Your suggestion is that the slow guys shouldn't have to work at all to get a hp reduction. That is plain wrong because all you would have is sandbagging. I mean come on. You are right in that it does take money to go fast, but it also takes money to have nice things in life. And for some, a fast Stocker is one nice thing. It is not a right. No one said racing Stock Eliminator should be easy or affordable for everyone.

I know that sounds rude, but it is the reality of life. I would like to live in a mansion and race Pro Stock, but I can't afford it. So, I have a modest home and race a class I can afford.

Evan

stockracer · 10-30-2008, 06:10 PM

Ed how much do you have in your motor?

Your not rude and I believe people should work for what they get. Sand bagging for the majority is not for hp factors. Maybe up where you have mineshaft air but in the normal racing condidtions you have to try to go 1.15 under! If your sandbaggin its trying to pick up a duck (go fast guys that cant dial there car), a break bye, or avoid a heads up! Sand bagging in almost all cases that I know of is only to best place your self on the ladder, I dont know anybody that can go 1.15 under that baggs to the bottom. And the last time I was at the track, and looked at the points, top 10 qual dont mean anything.

Ed Wright · 10-30-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockracer

Ed how much do you have in your motor?

I have a SS car, not a stocker. I built it myself. The places to spend it is where it counts. Heads, intake and valve train. Mine is only .030" over, with off-the-shelf JE 3 ring pistons, no lightening no trick mm rings, etc. I spent it on Dave layer heads, and the Hogan intake he reccomended. Cheap Scat rods, stock stroke crank, no small journals with spacer bearings, etc. Jesell rockers and PAC springs for reliability. A stocker would be a lot cheaper. Best I have gone is 1.05 under in 2400' air. Haven't been in better air and a good starting line too. I don't have big tires and a 4 link. There are a lot of a LOT faster cars out there than mine. Nobody that has seen my car will tell you it's high dollar. Still has the 1996 factory paint on it. And, yes I know I'm not fast. Can't seem to leave on time either. :-)

I see guys at Div 4 points races that can go more than 1.15 under, but sand bagging to the bottom of the ladder. I'm not smart enough to know why. Heck, if I can get on the SIDE of the ladder I want I'm lucky.

stockracer · 10-30-2008, 07:02 PM

So how much do you have in it? Your time, and what is your time worth? A stocker can run -.5 in superstock with the same combo. Besides the bs caddilac combo id say the lt1 is the softest combo in SS. Id venture to say it cost more to go -1.00 under in stock with your combo then in SS. But to be the fastest or have a shot at class, how much we talking? I know how much a complete stocker and a complete super stock motor small block/big block, pass the barn, and last, would cost. Priced and bought them all. Put your time and effort in a 350/255 and see how you fair doin it your self, Now if time means nothing then Im sure you could beat it and thrash it for a couple of years, but I like having my chance at winning!

SS Engine Guy · 10-31-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

. At this point, it would be my suggestion for anyone interested in seeing either lowered indexes or raised triggers to flood your division office, as well as the Glendora office, with emails, letters and phone calls.

I think thats why the indexes remained the same. Alot of racers/sponsors voiced their opinion at the proper offices.

Michael Beard · 10-31-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

The fact is, the NHRA has allowed many modifications over the last five (or so) years, but has not updated the AHFS in a favorable manner to "factor" in for the performance gains from said modifications.

So why don't they take all the data they've accumulated over the years, apply some science to it, and adjust all of the HP factors once and be done with it. Anything less, and the gaming of the system will continue.

"NHRA All Out"

10-30-2008, 05:13 PM	#21
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Index Changes To all the racers, Woodro and Greg couldn't have stated it better. We have gone to bat and spent many hours debating issues to better the sport, but in most cases our requests have fallen on deaf ears. Most of us feel as if we wasted our time. The big dogs ensured us that we'd make a difference, but i don't see how. At this point, it would be my suggestion for anyone interested in seeing either lowered indexes or raised triggers to flood your division office, as well as the Glendora office, with emails, letters and phone calls. I hate to burden the division offices with this stuff, but as a community we now need to band together and voice an opinion. Thanks, Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

10-30-2008, 05:36 PM	#22
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Index Changes Maybe the final call is left up to the big guys for just this reason. Car counts are down, Fuel cost are sky high, and people are droping out of class racing. But now we want to make it harder to be competitive, and over all increase the expenses of goin to the track. Thank god there was at least one division that put someone in the committe that has a clue what this rule change would have done! Thanks Glendora for not allowing this to take place! If were not goin to lower the trigger then I think the bottom trigger should change. Any run less then -.600 should get automatic hp back, Get those combos so it doesnt cost 25k to go 1.1 under! Id hate to know what it cost to get a car the will run 1.61 under! And dont give me the "hard work and long nights" speech on goin fast. Nothing makes a car go fast but money, or soft combos!

10-30-2008, 05:52 PM	#23
Mike Voth Live Reporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Buhler, KS Posts: 527 Likes: 5 Liked 57 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Index Changes Lyn - I couldn't agree with you more!!!! Or even a half cc small as was the case for us in KC!! __________________ Mike Voth 5189 GTN - 5188 GTO Voth Racing

10-30-2008, 05:54 PM	#24
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Index Changes It doesn't cost $25,000.00 to run a second under. Probably would if you have to hire everything done, but not if you know how to do things yourself. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

10-30-2008, 06:09 PM	#25
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Index Changes Stockracer, The point of the matter is that we're not just talking about the elite, fast cars in Stock. The weak trigger affects many combinations, some not so fast. At just about any national event you can watch the top 33% of the field sandbag so as not to go 1.15 under. That is not racing. The fact is, the NHRA has allowed many modifications over the last five (or so) years, but has not updated the AHFS in a favorable manner to "factor" in for the performance gains from said modifications. I don't think we need to shave the indexes and hurt the slow guys. Your suggestion is that the slow guys shouldn't have to work at all to get a hp reduction. That is plain wrong because all you would have is sandbagging. I mean come on. You are right in that it does take money to go fast, but it also takes money to have nice things in life. And for some, a fast Stocker is one nice thing. It is not a right. No one said racing Stock Eliminator should be easy or affordable for everyone. I know that sounds rude, but it is the reality of life. I would like to live in a mansion and race Pro Stock, but I can't afford it. So, I have a modest home and race a class I can afford. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

10-30-2008, 06:10 PM	#26
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Index Changes Ed how much do you have in your motor? Your not rude and I believe people should work for what they get. Sand bagging for the majority is not for hp factors. Maybe up where you have mineshaft air but in the normal racing condidtions you have to try to go 1.15 under! If your sandbaggin its trying to pick up a duck (go fast guys that cant dial there car), a break bye, or avoid a heads up! Sand bagging in almost all cases that I know of is only to best place your self on the ladder, I dont know anybody that can go 1.15 under that baggs to the bottom. And the last time I was at the track, and looked at the points, top 10 qual dont mean anything. Last edited by stockracer; 10-30-2008 at 06:16 PM. Reason: add

10-30-2008, 07:02 PM	#28
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Index Changes So how much do you have in it? Your time, and what is your time worth? A stocker can run -.5 in superstock with the same combo. Besides the bs caddilac combo id say the lt1 is the softest combo in SS. Id venture to say it cost more to go -1.00 under in stock with your combo then in SS. But to be the fastest or have a shot at class, how much we talking? I know how much a complete stocker and a complete super stock motor small block/big block, pass the barn, and last, would cost. Priced and bought them all. Put your time and effort in a 350/255 and see how you fair doin it your self, Now if time means nothing then Im sure you could beat it and thrash it for a couple of years, but I like having my chance at winning!