Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S - Page 3

Alan Roehrich · 05-26-2009, 11:31 PM

It would not be hard at all to put the brackets on a 12 bolt correctly, honestly, the geometry is not all that complicated. The 12 bolt would be cheaper, faster, and more reliable. It just would not be as cool.

I seriously doubt there is a cost effective way to keep the original rear end in the car and have it be reliable. Much as I'd like to see it work, it would be pretty cool.

treessavoy · 05-27-2009, 10:21 AM

I agree with Alan.

Any chassis shop can set up the correct angles for the 12 bolt in your car.

You might get in contact with some of the rear end builders...strange, moser, dts, or Randy at www.ringandpinion.com, perhaps one of them can help you.

Keep her running.

Jim

Aubrey N Bruneau · 05-27-2009, 01:56 PM

As usual... excellent points and suggestions.

There is apparently, a simple 12 bolt conversion available. I just don't like conventional 10/12 bolts, what with their need for "c clip eliminators", ect. A person still needs a spool, axles, cap supports... and those elusive ( to me ) 9310 "pro gears".
My beautiful disc brake adaptors turned out so nice, that I just can't abandon them yet !

Bob Pagano · 05-27-2009, 03:32 PM

You do not have to run c-clip crap, just change the ends on the housing when you order axles, 12 bolt will come no matter what. Its like 8 .75 mopar rears, your going to get a dana no matter what you do.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 05-27-2009, 05:37 PM

I swapped in a 12 bolt into my red 62 Impala SS back in 1976 with no problems. It originally was from a 69 El Camino, so ALL 68-72 A body 12 bolts will work.As I recall, the back spacing was not an issue,backing plate to backing plate,I used 4.56 gears,nothing trick here, a 4 series posi unit and stock axles.The 65-70 Impala unit was about three inches wider and would have to be narrowed.The 65-up lower control arm brackets could be removed from the 62 housing and welded to the 12 bolt axle tubes. I think that the brake backing plates might interchange from the 62 rear end to the 65,therefore your disc brake stuff would carry over to it. The upper arm attachment points on the 65 impala 12 bolt might have to be moved a bit to line things up, and some kind of custom length Panhard rod would have to be built-no big deal. In order to put the stock width Chevelle A body rear end in, the 62 lower arm brackets would have to be swapped for the Chevelle arm brackets then some kind of custom upper trailing arms would have to be made to connect the upper arm front mounting point to the Chevelle upper bushings. NHRA rulebook says that the rear upper arm mounting point CAN be relocated. Wonder if they thought of these cars when they made that rule!One thing,though- A body cars had 9 1/2" dia.rear brakes-also,the flange for the backing plate was smaller as they had a smaller diameter axle than the big car 12 bolts.One thing for certain-the 12 bolt is the way to go with these cars,there's no shortage of good parts out there for them.

ss wannabee · 05-28-2009, 01:53 PM

I think Aubrey's trying to get the Bubbletop into the 10's WITH the 10-bolt if he can. Wonder if dropping down to 4.88 would give you any strength and not affect the tune-up too much? 12-bolt is probably the way to go long-term...I think it's legal now...didn't that '62 Vette Stocker in Div.1 have one aboard a few years ago when it came out? But the Bel-Air would loose some of it's coolness if the rear was swapped, LOL!!! I'd check the 10-bolt banjo housing when doing repairs to make sure it's not distorted any...isn't it basically sheet-metal? Wonder if a little more clutch work would allow the 10-bolt to "live" a bit longer? While we're on the subject, would anybody know how many '62 Bel-Air Bubbletops were built...do I understand about 5900....and about how many were ACTUALLY 409 factory-equipped??? I've heard some of the stories about the '62 Indy Nats, and the late(in the model year) release of the aluminum front-ends and Z-11 parts upgrade and some of the racers 'borrowing' Bubbletop pieces (or cars) from rental car agencies...or so forth...All I can say is WISH I were there! Must have been a wild time!!!!

Tony Janes · 05-28-2009, 02:17 PM

The 10 bolt drop out is a waste of time if he is serious. It will break almost every time he goes to an event. 12 bolt 35 spline spool and axles next step.

05-28-2009, 08:52 PM

Aubry,

Your car makes me smile! I'm glad to see that you’re getting it there. Don't listen to the naysayers, you've got a plan that is working stick with it!

Jackie McCracken

Ken Haase · 05-29-2009, 01:07 AM

Aubrey, your BelAir was undoubtedly the crowd favorite at Mission. And I'd bet those fans were plenty disappointed when the rear let go. But, not nearly as much as you were! I don't think Tony Janes is being a naysayer. I think that he is giving very good advice. As far as 'cool' goes, the only people that will know there's a 12 bolt under there are you and whoever wants to get down on the ground and look. IMO, cool is those disc brake mounts you made. Those were an upgrade, and a smart one at that. I understand the reluctance to give up on the original 'chunks'. But, you're making good power, you've got a fairly deep first gear, and using a clutch. Recent history proves Tony's point don't you think? When you stage at the next race you go to, you're going to have that nagging little voice saying "is it going to break again?" With a 12 bolt there's more ratio selection, parts availability, and the strength factor. Just another smart upgrade.

Personally, I want to see that car go rounds, not be towed off the starting line. No rear is bulletproof, but you would really improve your odds. Best of Luck.

Greg Reimer 7376 · 05-29-2009, 10:36 AM

Ken is exactly right. Also,the collector/restorer's demand on the early rear end's parts availability has the cost of those units up to where a good 12 bolt isn't that costly by compatison.We all want to see that car go rounds,this would help it immensely. Bring it down for Winternationals some year!

05-26-2009, 11:31 PM	#21
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,118 Likes: 1,576 Liked 1,837 Times in 417 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S It would not be hard at all to put the brackets on a 12 bolt correctly, honestly, the geometry is not all that complicated. The 12 bolt would be cheaper, faster, and more reliable. It just would not be as cool. I seriously doubt there is a cost effective way to keep the original rear end in the car and have it be reliable. Much as I'd like to see it work, it would be pretty cool. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

05-27-2009, 10:21 AM	#22
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S I agree with Alan. Any chassis shop can set up the correct angles for the 12 bolt in your car. You might get in contact with some of the rear end builders...strange, moser, dts, or Randy at www.ringandpinion.com, perhaps one of them can help you. Keep her running. Jim

05-27-2009, 01:56 PM	#23
Aubrey N Bruneau Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Eastern Alberta, Canada Posts: 311 Likes: 6 Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S As usual... excellent points and suggestions. There is apparently, a simple 12 bolt conversion available. I just don't like conventional 10/12 bolts, what with their need for "c clip eliminators", ect. A person still needs a spool, axles, cap supports... and those elusive ( to me ) 9310 "pro gears". My beautiful disc brake adaptors turned out so nice, that I just can't abandon them yet ! Attached Images __________________ Aubrey N Bruneau 6409 C/S 62 BelAir sport coupe, 409 HP 409

05-27-2009, 03:32 PM	#24
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 241 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S You do not have to run c-clip crap, just change the ends on the housing when you order axles, 12 bolt will come no matter what. Its like 8 .75 mopar rears, your going to get a dana no matter what you do. __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

05-27-2009, 05:37 PM	#25
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,136 Likes: 172 Liked 705 Times in 219 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S I swapped in a 12 bolt into my red 62 Impala SS back in 1976 with no problems. It originally was from a 69 El Camino, so ALL 68-72 A body 12 bolts will work.As I recall, the back spacing was not an issue,backing plate to backing plate,I used 4.56 gears,nothing trick here, a 4 series posi unit and stock axles.The 65-70 Impala unit was about three inches wider and would have to be narrowed.The 65-up lower control arm brackets could be removed from the 62 housing and welded to the 12 bolt axle tubes. I think that the brake backing plates might interchange from the 62 rear end to the 65,therefore your disc brake stuff would carry over to it. The upper arm attachment points on the 65 impala 12 bolt might have to be moved a bit to line things up, and some kind of custom length Panhard rod would have to be built-no big deal. In order to put the stock width Chevelle A body rear end in, the 62 lower arm brackets would have to be swapped for the Chevelle arm brackets then some kind of custom upper trailing arms would have to be made to connect the upper arm front mounting point to the Chevelle upper bushings. NHRA rulebook says that the rear upper arm mounting point CAN be relocated. Wonder if they thought of these cars when they made that rule!One thing,though- A body cars had 9 1/2" dia.rear brakes-also,the flange for the backing plate was smaller as they had a smaller diameter axle than the big car 12 bolts.One thing for certain-the 12 bolt is the way to go with these cars,there's no shortage of good parts out there for them.

05-28-2009, 01:53 PM	#26
ss wannabee Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 663 Likes: 0 Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S I think Aubrey's trying to get the Bubbletop into the 10's WITH the 10-bolt if he can. Wonder if dropping down to 4.88 would give you any strength and not affect the tune-up too much? 12-bolt is probably the way to go long-term...I think it's legal now...didn't that '62 Vette Stocker in Div.1 have one aboard a few years ago when it came out? But the Bel-Air would loose some of it's coolness if the rear was swapped, LOL!!! I'd check the 10-bolt banjo housing when doing repairs to make sure it's not distorted any...isn't it basically sheet-metal? Wonder if a little more clutch work would allow the 10-bolt to "live" a bit longer? While we're on the subject, would anybody know how many '62 Bel-Air Bubbletops were built...do I understand about 5900....and about how many were ACTUALLY 409 factory-equipped??? I've heard some of the stories about the '62 Indy Nats, and the late(in the model year) release of the aluminum front-ends and Z-11 parts upgrade and some of the racers 'borrowing' Bubbletop pieces (or cars) from rental car agencies...or so forth...All I can say is WISH I were there! Must have been a wild time!!!!

05-28-2009, 02:17 PM	#27
Tony Janes Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Whittier, Ca Posts: 830 Likes: 94 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S The 10 bolt drop out is a waste of time if he is serious. It will break almost every time he goes to an event. 12 bolt 35 spline spool and axles next step. __________________ Tony Janes 7941 STK, SS

05-28-2009, 08:52 PM	#28
Jackie McCracken Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S Aubry, Your car makes me smile! I'm glad to see that you’re getting it there. Don't listen to the naysayers, you've got a plan that is working stick with it! Jackie McCracken

05-29-2009, 01:07 AM	#29
Ken Haase Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 233 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S Aubrey, your BelAir was undoubtedly the crowd favorite at Mission. And I'd bet those fans were plenty disappointed when the rear let go. But, not nearly as much as you were! I don't think Tony Janes is being a naysayer. I think that he is giving very good advice. As far as 'cool' goes, the only people that will know there's a 12 bolt under there are you and whoever wants to get down on the ground and look. IMO, cool is those disc brake mounts you made. Those were an upgrade, and a smart one at that. I understand the reluctance to give up on the original 'chunks'. But, you're making good power, you've got a fairly deep first gear, and using a clutch. Recent history proves Tony's point don't you think? When you stage at the next race you go to, you're going to have that nagging little voice saying "is it going to break again?" With a 12 bolt there's more ratio selection, parts availability, and the strength factor. Just another smart upgrade. Personally, I want to see that car go rounds, not be towed off the starting line. No rear is bulletproof, but you would really improve your odds. Best of Luck.

05-29-2009, 10:36 AM	#30
Greg Reimer 7376 VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendora,Calif. Posts: 1,136 Likes: 172 Liked 705 Times in 219 Posts	Re: Aubrey's 62 409 goes 11.067 in C/S Ken is exactly right. Also,the collector/restorer's demand on the early rear end's parts availability has the cost of those units up to where a good 12 bolt isn't that costly by compatison.We all want to see that car go rounds,this would help it immensely. Bring it down for Winternationals some year!