Drag Pak Engines

[Irv Johns]

Ed, actually Joe Stillings was kind enough to drive it out for me.Wow what a trip, thanks to 63 corvette he was able to divert south at Amarillo to miss the storm.There's a great bunch of RACERS on here and this forum is asset to those who use it properly. My rig and DragPak are now in line at Pomona race track waiting to go in. Jeremy Duncan is driving my Cobalt as I didn't have enough grade points to run stock before the deadline.

Irv Johns
391 Stock

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by Irv Johns

There's a great bunch of RACERS on here and this forum is asset to those who use it properly.

I couldnt agree more, the help offered by the community here has been immesurable.

• A motor loaner from someone who contacted me here.
• Technical resources from very sharp people
• Resources from vendors (real vendors not snake oil salesman, offereing their resources at cost or below to see us succeed)
• Moral support.
• Contacts from people and points in the "right" direction
• A driver for the early part of the season, and another driver for the latter
• All because of this board......

And thats the "Short list"

My hope Is I will be able to repay or "Pay it Forward" some of the kindness and knowlege here, and one of my fears is I will never be able to properly repay the kindness and resources here.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by FECARMAN

The Mustang CJ's are ready to go out of the crate or in the car. Ford blueprints the engines in the Romeo engine plant before the customer gets the engine. Fiat evidently does it at the customers expense. I guess this is the real meaning of "kit car". Revell should have assembled the kit.

Ford does it again. Goes to show how much they care about their racer's and gives them a blue printed race ready engine. I bet they also dyno'd them??? At the time when placing the order for our DP, we expected a race ready engine especially for the price of what was paid and what was actually delivered. Working on a VERY tight budget, we knew what was needed to complete the car and started compiling the necessary parts to finish it once it was confirmed that we were selected to get one. Had we known at the time of ordering it that we needed to build an engine, that may have changed our minds cause an engine build wasn't included in the budget. I'd like to know how many other DP owners are in the same boat as us? To one of those owners that are, we can lend a helping hand to help reduce the cost of your engine build. Parts and machining aside, we decided to offer our labor at no charge including dyno tuning (you'll have to pay for the dyno session, between 250-300) if your using either a FAST or AEM controller. The AEM is prefered because we have dyno'd with it more and have more written tunes for these new Hemi's with it over the FAST. I gotta go. PM me if your interested.

[scott justo]

as the owner of#18 the thought of a motor rebuild makes me sick.the dealer i ordered it from made me pay in full befor he would place the order so there was no going back.mopar kept every thing a secret till i picked it up.the cost keeps going up on this car and with this news im almost ready to give up.people say these cars will be worth alot of money someday im hoping that day will come soon.i vote for clutchless trans in stock because i have one now.i could use that 5 large for a rebuild.

[Jeff Teuton]

You don't need a rebuild. Just pull it apart and check the bearings, etc. Make sure it is clean etc. Make sure the adapter for the Viper oil filter is changed. # 18 probably needs to be changed. I have 16 and we changed. There was a bulletin from MP about the filter. There is an adapter for the idle motor you will need. I have some. Indy might have some. That is for a Fast system. Mine is a nice piece.

[NewHemi]

As Jeff said, just make sure your bottom end bearings and journals are good. Your engine may or may not have been run before you got it. So check clearances and make sure it all looks good. Then if the bottom end is good, you should be able to run up to 6K rpm without a problem. Above that, you need top end work, but you probably already knew that..

Speaking of costs and these beauties. I am one of those poor souls who started out putting a large (over $40K) down payment on the car before we actually knew was in the package....Thinking it was a race ready car like the prototypes, I was expecting, and willing to pay more than what turned out to be the $37K list price for a car with "some assembly required".

My dealer was very understanding that it wasn't what we all expected, and he was ready to cancel my order....unless I agreed to let him keep the "down payment" as full payment for the car. So I started out paying more for my car than it should have paid... But the fun just keeps coming, and so do the expenses...

However as I told my son Drooze (Chris) one day as I was thinking about the costs.... If I had any idea this car was going cost me this much money.....

I still would have done it!

My girlfriend still doesn't get it though. (good thing we live in towns about 40 minutes apart...) She has asked me to explain this car a couple of times, and usually starts out by her saying "Let me understand this..."
You are paying more for this car than the house you just bought.. right? The answer is YES! The next question usually is; "and you can't drive it on the street, right?"

And my answer always is "That is the point!" It is a Drag Race Car, and only one of a limited number. And not everyone gets a chance to do what we are doing.

I have told her though that next time I take my SRT8 to my local track, we will put my grandson's helmet on her and she can ride shotgun... then when we are siitting at the tree and we hole shot the guy in the other lane, and get to end of track first, she just might understand...

Or maybe not, but it really doesn't matter. It is my money, and she is not my wife (after 3 marriages that were just all wrong, I just figure that I am not someone who should be married..) and I already have bought her enough diamonds and a Porsche Boxster, so I can spend the rest of my money any way I want.

David
________
Porn For Free

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

This is true, but the Viper filter itself wont correct everything, on top of that even the Viper guys wont run the Mopar Viper filter, look at some of your options there. (I dont know whos filter Mopar Labels but I hear there are better options than the Ma Mopar PN, welcome to the automotive aftermarket

Our #24 had the right sized nipple (I have been told some of the early ones had smaller ?, 19mm maybe ?)

The Milodon windage tray we picked was what appeared to be a nice piece, Gary Stanton today confirmed that it was the correct choice.

I was fortunate to be show around Stantons shop and wow.....If I had access to a shop like that I would just move a bed in and order out for women and Pizza........

We picked up our new motor today, and well, the ends Gary went through to see us happy , well....they were extraordinary, AND hes a hell of a nice guy on top of it. It was an honor and a privelage. In some ways his hand (and this is my perception and may be innacurate) is that his hands are a bit tied on what Mopar (2 regimes ago?) may have originally speced on the Motors.....While Stanton may be building them, its not like he has a free hand......welcome to corporate America....

Ma Mopar has been unreal , in a positive way to deal with this on. I am 100% thrilled, and quite frankly with some of the knowledge I gained from Gary on these motors I think we will be better off faster than we would have before. I told them my take and that "forensics" may show culpability on our part, I wont deny that, we followed the Tech bulletins to the letter, windage, accumulator, filter.......Who knows....noone ever will know accutatley what caused our motor failure......BUT it dosent matter to us at this point, I "signed" off on the motor we took delivery of today after inspection, I agree Jeff, I saw our bearings on our new motor after the motor was dynod in front of my eyes.....perfect.....just simply perfect.

I was told by the upper execs at Mopar , they want to see us succeed (and they didnt mean just NHR, but the Drag Pak owners as a whole group) I believe this to be honest and sincere....or as I think you know from me If I didnt think that I wouldnt say it.

Im happy, the old man is happy. We just have to plug on from here.

Were "back on track" and I think the best explanation of the situation is miscommunications on our part and in relationship to the status of the motors as they shipped........I wouldnt despair #18 there are several who ran these motors as is with no isses, my issues (personal frustration) were originally in a piston spec issue that has between Stanton and Diamond and the NHRA been resolved (you will se an effective change on AD clearance on the 6.1 a month or so ago in the blueprint guide.

Its not much effort to check it, in our case we didnt, that was a time issue, it may have cost us Pomona. I dont think anyone will really ever know. But its entirley possible it was our fault.

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

You don't need a rebuild. Just pull it apart and check the bearings, etc. Make sure it is clean etc. Make sure the adapter for the Viper oil filter is changed. # 18 probably needs to be changed. I have 16 and we changed. There was a bulletin from MP about the filter. There is an adapter for the idle motor you will need. I have some. Indy might have some. That is for a Fast system. Mine is a nice piece.

[Jeff Teuton]

Some dealers got a little greedy. I sold mine for about 36 FOB Detroit. I think I might have one available. I think I handled 11 or 12 or so, I kept or will keep 3, one of each type. I think there will be more development of this car as time goes on by Mopar. Mine returned from B & B Race Cars today. Should be on the dyno with my 360 next week, while my body shop paints this car, then assemble it and go to the Gators.

[hemidup]

As far as I know, out of the first 50 DP's built, we have 1 of 5 that were built with a 5.7 Hemi. I can't speak for the other 4, but besides our clearance issues, we have piston problems and currently I don't agree with the recomended solution. Hopefully those issue's were resolved with the later built 5.7's.

On a good note. The stock 5.7 and 6.1 engine and blocks are excellent in both casting and machine work. The quality is impresive and for those that have gone over their blocks with a fine tooth comb will definatly vouch for that. We've been building performance and race app Gen III Hemi's for going on 5 years now. We know them inside and out. Some, like Arlan Vanke and Judy Lilly, consider us pioneer's with the Gen III Hemi aftermarket and new engine designs. We're just 3 dead broke and beaten guy's in a shop, but helped companies like ARP, ATI Super Dampers and Manley develope their prototype Hemi products. In fact those first prototype units are on my personal engine and I still get a chuckle when ARP agreed to make their first run of 10 sets and were very concered about selling them at all. lol We ended up buying 7 and then 15 sets from their next run of 30. Manley did thank us by sending a complimentary set of Nextek series valve springs and titanium retainers for our efforts.

On a side note. For the DYI street/strip builders, these Hemi's can make lots of power on a budget. Complete 5.7 engines are now available cheap from most salvage yards. In fact I just seen one that had low oil pressure for $200. The 5.7 comes with a very stout cast iron crankshaft and if the person so wishes and is lucky, can find a new SRT8 forged 6.1 crankshaft for around $400. If not, Mopar Performance has a forged crank for around $600. Aftermarkert rods and pistons are optional. Stock compression is 9.6:1, but can be brought up by milling the heads. Stock 5.7 heads flow 268 cfm @ 600" lift, but with a good valve job and a simple pocket port will yeild 300 cfm @ 600" lift. Used billet 6.1 camshafts are a dime a dozen, but because of the wide lsa, most opt for an aftermarket stick which are all ground with the 6.1 base circle. That means they'll need 6.1 valve springs (must use 16, 6.1 exh valve springs on 5.7 heads) and pushrods which can be purchased through a dealer for under $100. I've seen many a stock 6.1 valve spring go to 6500 rpm without a failure yet as long as the the lift stayed below .580". BTW, Hopefully they don't loose any retainer locks cause they cost $5 a valve from the dealer and the retainers are .50 cents each. ??? Stock intake manifolds start laying down at 5600 rpm and I still haven't found a good aftermarket one yet. So what can you expect for a buget engine build? I've seen plenty of Hemi full size 4300 lb family sedans running in the 12's with just heads and cam. Now put that engine combo in a lightweight bracket car? Giddy yup!

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by hemidup

As far as I know, out of the first 50 DP's built, we have 1 of 5 that were built with a 5.7 Hemi. I can't speak for the other 4, but besides our clearance issues, we have piston problems and currently I don't agree with the recomended solution. Hopefully those issue's were resolved with the later built 5.7's.

On a good note. The stock 5.7 and 6.1 engine and blocks are excellent in both casting and machine work. The quality is impresive and for those that have gone over their blocks with a fine tooth comb will definatly vouch for that. We've been building performance and race app Gen III Hemi's for going on 5 years now. We know them inside and out. Some, like Arlan Vanke and Judy Lilly, consider us pioneer's with the Gen III Hemi aftermarket and new engine designs. We're just 3 dead broke and beaten guy's in a shop, but helped companies like ARP, ATI Super Dampers and Manley develope their prototype Hemi products. In fact those first prototype units are on my personal engine and I still get a chuckle when ARP agreed to make their first run of 10 sets and were very concered about selling them at all. lol We ended up buying 7 and then 15 sets from their next run of 30. Manley did thank us by sending a complimentary set of Nextek series valve springs and titanium retainers for our efforts.

On a side note. For the DYI street/strip builders, these Hemi's can make lots of power on a budget. Complete 5.7 engines are now available cheap from most salvage yards. In fact I just seen one that had low oil pressure for $200. The 5.7 comes with a very stout cast iron crankshaft and if the person so wishes and is lucky, can find a new SRT8 forged 6.1 crankshaft for around $400. If not, Mopar Performance has a forged crank for around $600. Aftermarkert rods and pistons are optional. Stock compression is 9.6:1, but can be brought up by milling the heads. Stock 5.7 heads flow 268 cfm @ 600" lift, but with a good valve job and a simple pocket port will yeild 300 cfm @ 600" lift. Used billet 6.1 camshafts are a dime a dozen, but because of the wide lsa, most opt for an aftermarket stick which are all ground with the 6.1 base circle. That means they'll need 6.1 valve springs (must use 16, 6.1 exh valve springs on 5.7 heads) and pushrods which can be purchased through a dealer for under $100. I've seen many a stock 6.1 valve spring go to 6500 rpm without a failure yet as long as the the lift stayed below .580". BTW, Hopefully they don't loose any retainer locks cause they cost $5 a valve from the dealer and the retainers are .50 cents each. ??? Stock intake manifolds start laying down at 5600 rpm and I still haven't found a good aftermarket one yet. So what can you expect for a buget engine build? I've seen plenty of Hemi full size 4300 lb family sedans running in the 12's with just heads and cam. Now put that engine combo in a lightweight bracket car? Giddy yup!

Anyone find/know the combined weight for the new motors on the NHRA's site? Seems to be MIA from the accepted products list! Maybe I am just missing it.

CID YEAR PISTON# FACTORY HP
MINIMUM
COMPRESS.
HEIGHT PIN DIA. RING GROOVES
MIN
DISTANCE
FROM TOP
OF UPPER
RING
GROOVE TO
TOP OF
PISTON
*Ref only*
PISTON
WEIGHT
*Ref only*
ROD
WEIGHT
*Ref only*
PIN
WEIGHT
*Ref only*
RING SET
WEIGHT
MINIMUM
ASSEMBLY
WEIGHT