Extict A car...

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by B Aceves

Perfect Example Art, Last time I checked Brian is a Damn good Driver
This BS cost him a real good shot at winning
Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
4312 P.B. Candies 2523 Bryan Phillips
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.325 10.219 132.44 0.002 10.718 104.65
E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -1.481 E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -0.982
Prior rounds:
E2 (M Truman ) 0.092 10.248 0.018 (F Maiolo ) 0.037 10.854 0.024
E1 (R West ) 0.050 10.233 0.033 (W Lent ) 0.015 10.891 0.111
Qualified: #7 10.399 -1.301 #55 10.827 -0.873

Heads up race and Phillips nails the tree to no avail. Candies has a 0.325 light and still wins by 27 feet

Bob ,you beat me to this one.
I just want to add that Bryan was the 2004 Indy E/SA class winner, too.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by B Aceves

I will apologize if you took my post as a personal attack it wasnt... But that was over
30 years ago Art LOL things have changed a little since then dont you think? We
have a average of 5 cars in E/SA at a Div race now lol. How many cars were in E
at Indy this year ? I do understand anything can happen but nothing short of a blown motor in these cars would help.

I'm just stating that as long as these guys run the cars and not play games with lifting.
Things will work out. I commend them for racing the cars
Just to beat up on the new cars isn't a solution. Because this is racing and someone will always have an advantage. Remember there is a total vaccum of common sense in Glendora. I asked a question about running individual throttle bodies, and was told I had to run a stock throttle body. This is a pounds per cubic inch modified production motor.
And I was told I had to run a stock throttle body. Even if the motor never came in any car.
You really don't want these people making any more decissions than needed.
Something constructive would be to take out the 1000' clocks. It might make everyone run to the end.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by B Aceves

Perfect Example Art, Last time I checked Brian is a Damn good Driver
This BS cost him a real good shot at winning
Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET-- Speed
4312 P.B. Candies 2523 Bryan Phillips
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.325 10.219 132.44 0.002 10.718 104.65
E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -1.481 E/SA Dial: 11.70 (+/-): -0.982
Prior rounds:
E2 (M Truman ) 0.092 10.248 0.018 (F Maiolo ) 0.037 10.854 0.024
E1 (R West ) 0.050 10.233 0.033 (W Lent ) 0.015 10.891 0.111
Qualified: #7 10.399 -1.301 #55 10.827 -0.873

Heads up race and Phillips nails the tree to no avail. Candies has a 0.325 light and still wins by 27 feet

When I look at this It tells me the DP ran it out while the other car dumped.
He would not have won anyway but protected his index. He went .98 under the new index dumping. If you allow Glendora to adjust things I'm sure that would require an adjustment.

[bigshow2966]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Just asking, what difference does it make?

He's got a pretty decent A/SA car, and he's done a lot to help other people race and learn. He's paid his dues, builds his own engines, and goes by his real name, too. He's just another good racer, trying to run a car he already owns, without going $100K in debt, and doing it the old fashioned way, working hard on it himself, instead of buying it all done.

Why does it matter? because, if he wasn't the fastest non-package car how would he win?

The package cars are taking care of themselves, no need to be selling off "uncompetitive" cars yet.

And so what if someone else has bought a competitive car out of the box for big money? That has always been the nature of class racing. You buys your ticket and takes your chance. Someone, somewhere will always be faster eventually.

Dennis Schumers
Park Forest, IL

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by bigshow2966

Why does it matter? because, if he wasn't the fastest non-package car how would he win?

The package cars are taking care of themselves, no need to be selling off "uncompetitive" cars yet.

And so what if someone else has bought a competitive car out of the box for big money? That has always been the nature of class racing. You buys your ticket and takes your chance. Someone, somewhere will always be faster eventually.

Dennis Schumers
Park Forest, IL

The thing is, you're wrong. Because there were only a very few of A cars able to go 9.90's in decent air, and only a very few AA cars capable of going 9.60's in decent air. Now there are a couple dozen, at least. The average A car was a ten-teen car, and the average AA car was a 9.80 car in decent air. So a guy with an average car had a shot. so long as he didn't run into one of the few. Now the few are many, and the average guy is ten times more likely to meet one.

Many of us could race for years, and have, without ever seeing one of the really fast 427 cars like the Sorensons or DeArmond, or even one of the other killer cars like Shaul, Holroyd, DeFrank or the others. You're assuming that only the fastest of the traditional combinations lost anything. That assumption has no merit.

If you already had $50K or so invested in an average A or AA car and you can't pony up $80K+ for a new car, you're well behind the 8 ball, with little chance to catch up.

Another thing is that people believe you can just go out and buy a killer engine from a top name builder and you have an instant 1.1-1.2 under car. Nothing could be further from the truth. The average guy, given Joe and Hal's car, or Bobby's car, in pieces, with just the engine built, would barely run 1 under with it if/when they got it together.

[bigshow2966]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The thing is, you're wrong. Because there were only a very few of A cars able to go 9.90's in decent air, and only a very few AA cars capable of going 9.60's in decent air. Now there are a couple dozen, at least. The average A car was a ten-teen car, and the average AA car was a 9.80 car in decent air. So a guy with an average car had a shot. so long as he didn't run into one of the few. Now the few are many, and the average guy is ten times more likely to meet one.

Many of us could race for years, and have, without ever seeing one of the really fast 427 cars like the Sorensons or DeArmond, or even one of the other killer cars like Shaul, Holroyd, DeFrank or the others. You're assuming that only the fastest of the traditional combinations lost anything. That assumption has no merit.

If you already had $50K or so invested in an average A or AA car and you can't pony up $80K+ for a new car, you're well behind the 8 ball, with little chance to catch up.

Another thing is that people believe you can just go out and buy a killer engine from a top name builder and you have an instant 1.1-1.2 under car. Nothing could be further from the truth. The average guy, given Joe and Hal's car, or Bobby's car, in pieces, with just the engine built, would barely run 1 under with it if/when they got it together.

Isn't that the point of heads-up class racing, to be faster than the other guys no matter what? And hasn't it always been that the one with the most money or talent will win? What about the "old days" when the factories were sending out ringer cars all the time? Are things really any different now?

The CJ's are well on the way to SS only, and the 6.1 Hemi will probably not be too far behind. The 5.7 and 5.9 will be getting a present shortly too.

I think trying to sell off my car now is a tad premature.

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by bigshow2966

Isn't that the point of heads-up class racing, to be faster than the other guys no matter what? And hasn't it always been that the one with the most money or talent will win? What about the "old days" when the factories were sending out ringer cars all the time? Are things really any different now?

The CJ's are well on the way to SS only, and the 6.1 Hemi will probably not be too far behind. The 5.7 and 5.9 will be getting a present shortly too.

I think trying to sell off my car now is a tad premature.

Well on their way to Super Stock? These cars will still be in Stock for many years after many of todays racers are dead and gone if nothing is done about them.

[Bob Mulry]

So let me see if I have this right..............

Take run of 10.000 in E/SA....

This car goes out and runs hard enough at Sea Level National Events to get a 3.25% HP hit.....

This same car would have do this 6 times at different events (if any other DP 5.7 cars run 1.25 under at the same event it only counts as once) even after getting hit 6 times the HP rating would be 378 HP (a little more than an LS-1)

Now this car will race as a natural A/SA car and weigh 3194 lbs., which is 126 lbs less than it now weighs for E/SA.....

Let's see an ET of 10.000 and than you remove 126 lbs so you end up with an A/SA car that runs 9.90's in the summer at INDY.

However, this combo would have to be hit 6 times for that to happen.....

What a plan...

Bob

[Bridgewater7185]

Very well put Bob, I don't know if we have time for this? I for 1 have 3 dogs in this hunt and not to mention the LS-1 which has been beaten beond recognition! How much does a fella have to take (I know Cour...work on my stuff and quit crying) I'm for an FX class just like they did the FIA. Funny cars W/Puffers...?...WTF...over

[Bob Mulry]

Dave,

I think we should take the NHRA management team out behind the woodshed, and don't forget to bring your sons with you.

I have to think that NHRA has a plan (they make too much money not to have one) they just don't want to share it with is.

I was once fired from a job as a Service Manager for a Cadillac store. They told me that "they had some new plans and I wasn't a part of them"

I just hope that's not NHRA's plan for Stock & Super Stock, but it makes you wonder.

Take care,
Bob