Coyote blueprint specs changed - Page 3

HR9121 · 06-28-2019, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPR

Tear downs did no good because the tech dept protected one certain racer and allowed heads, pistons and other parts which were never produced or installed by the factory. We're talking about Stock where factory produced and approved components are mandated to be used by all competitors. When bogus specs get onto a TI form the person responsible should be held accountable. Keep digging and you'll be surprised. Not everyone will spend the time to look into this because they think it doesn't affect them because it's not the brand they race but how do we know if this is an isolated case? The more you look the more surprised you'd be. Even tech officials have been told to look the other way. Heads are not rare, like mentioned that's not what this is about. There's only nothing to look at here if you choose to look the other way.

Yeah I don't get it! This guy goes 1.20 under gets the combo instant horsepower, gets torn down and found to be bogus and all the sudden were changing the blueprint specs and the horsepower stands. This has got to be the biggest crock of sheet I've seen in a while!

jamie2370 · 06-28-2019, 08:42 AM

Basic point is that Mr. Carson is cheating.......... Car did NOT come from Ford with Carbon doors or Lexan windows or heads off a new 5.2 coyote motor from the GT350 motor. Believe me, we have 1 of 3!!! that were produced in 2013(claimed as a correct 14 now). The only white one produced. Actually 1 of 2 because one black one is still at Ford. But when you have an unlimited budget you can get anything approved for the right amount of money. Sad part is now my brother has 18hp put on his combo that NHRA refuses to remove. Bogus engine that should not pass tech got the HP. Any of us do that and we will get expelled from NHRA. Money makes the squeaky wheel quiet..............

jamie2370 · 06-28-2019, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HR9121

Yeah I don't get it! This guy goes 1.20 under gets the combo instant horsepower, gets torn down and found to be bogus and all the sudden were changing the blueprint specs and the horsepower stands. This has got to be the biggest crock of sheet I've seen in a while!

I agree......Oh and thanks for being a stand up guy Coot. We appreciate it. Hopefully soon I'll get to meet you in person, lol

BRETV · 06-28-2019, 10:36 AM

I'm getting ready to jump in this class with both feet. Testing the car in a couple weeks and I'm already fighting HP. Hopefully not from a bogus car. With being Ford people and researching this combination for years. I was a little confused about all the different head numbers, figured it out though. Hopefully NHRA has!!

Bret Velde
2003 FS/?

MPR · 06-28-2019, 10:39 AM

Someone had to approve this bogus stuff! I'm sure there must be someone at NHRA who can provide an answer to this. Who instructed the tech officials to allow this and how long has this been going on? If the TI form has been updated and the bogus heads, pistons ect. have been removed shouldn't the HP factor be put back to whatever it was before these parts were used?

Jim D'Amore · 06-28-2019, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie2370

Basic point is that Mr. Carson is cheating.......... Car did NOT come from Ford with Carbon doors or Lexan windows or heads off a new 5.2 coyote motor from the GT350 motor. Believe me, we have 1 of 3!!! that were produced in 2013(claimed as a correct 14 now). The only white one produced. Actually 1 of 2 because one black one is still at Ford. But when you have an unlimited budget you can get anything approved for the right amount of money. Sad part is now my brother has 18hp put on his combo that NHRA refuses to remove. Bogus engine that should not pass tech got the HP. Any of us do that and we will get expelled from NHRA. Money makes the squeaky wheel quiet..............

Jamie,

The car does NOT have carbon fiber doors, it does have Poly Carbonate windows which have been approved for 7 years. None of that matters because the car weighs what it has to weigh.

Carson's car has the factory Ford '14 head castings and you are right the pistons do not work with them. But if you use a .015" thicker head gasket and put the pistons .010" deeper in the hole they do work. Just use the factory deck height.

Listen if your brother would have kept his word and not hit the index we would have stayed away from it. But now we are trying to make the car a natural D car which we will do by years end.

We were protested last year at Indy, torn down to the crankshaft. So Division 3, 2, and 1 have all taken this car apart. If you want to call the NHRA tech guys cheaters you can do that, we will not. Tell your brother to learn to keep his word and none of this would have happened.

Jim

jamie2370 · 06-28-2019, 01:22 PM

I will correct one statement I made. It's Fezell's car that you got carbon doors approved for, not Carson's. But Carson's car has CNC heads that are made for a 5.2 gt350 combo. Runners are bigger, Valves are bigger, chamber is smaller. Not even Cobra Jet heads. But YOU got them approved by NHRA. Running a CNC head as the same combo as a car that has as cast heads is absolutely cheating. Just because you got it added to the approved list doesn't make it right. The Tech guys that tear you down just follow the numbers and guidelines set by Upper NHRA. So yeah...it passed. Stock Eliminator is for "as produced" cars. Not "oh this head is way better, lets get it approved even though it didn't come on it from Ford". As far as somebody keeping their word, Jeff's a big boy and will handle that himself. But YOU got 13hp put on the combo with one pass.......... YOU made the average higher, YOU went 1.20 under. So at this point the last 18hp is ALL on YOU. As far as the window deal. It didn't come from Ford with Lexan....

jamie2370 · 06-28-2019, 01:30 PM

And I will quote Charlie Bob.... When he actually wins more than one round of racing in a row against another car he might get some credit....doubt it... but maybe, just maybe. Until then, maybe even after...most likely still after...Ya'll will be hated on this sport. It's hard enough to keep the sport alive but with people like you that are determined to ruin something, it makes it even harder. Who really gives 2 flying F**** about HAVING to be #1 qualifier at a Divisional.

MPR · 06-28-2019, 01:46 PM

Some one at NHRA had to put their name on changes made to the TI Forms. If they have that much influence in the tech dept then they have control over divisional tech inspectors. The part I don't understand is how these parts were ok'd without Ford Racing knowing about it? Someone should be able to answer this question.
It's not fair for your performance in stock class to be compared to another car built to bogus engine specs. The HP factor should go back to what it was prior to the addition of non production parts usage. The more you look the more dirt you'll find.

Jim D'Amore · 06-28-2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie2370

I will correct one statement I made. It's Fezell's car that you got carbon doors approved for, not Carson's. But Carson's car has CNC heads that are made for a 5.2 gt350 combo. Runners are bigger, Valves are bigger, chamber is smaller. Not even Cobra Jet heads. But YOU got them approved by NHRA. Running a CNC head as the same combo as a car that has as cast heads is absolutely cheating. Just because you got it added to the approved list doesn't make it right. The Tech guys that tear you down just follow the numbers and guidelines set by Upper NHRA. So yeah...it passed. Stock Eliminator is for "as produced" cars. Not "oh this head is way better, lets get it approved even though it didn't come on it from Ford". As far as somebody keeping their word, Jeff's a big boy and will handle that himself. But YOU got 13hp put on the combo with one pass.......... YOU made the average higher, YOU went 1.20 under. So at this point the last 18hp is ALL on YOU. As far as the window deal. It didn't come from Ford with Lexan....

Again you are wrong, they are as casted OEM '14 heads. Again you are calling NHRA tech officials cheaters, again you are just sticking up for a guy who doesn't work on his own stuff and is SLOW. His engine builder can't figure out how to make him faster, that is not our fault. We are trying to make a D combination so we fit in a class.

Good bye,

Jim

06-28-2019, 08:42 AM	#22
jamie2370 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Perry, GA Posts: 331 Likes: 11 Liked 239 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed Basic point is that Mr. Carson is cheating.......... Car did NOT come from Ford with Carbon doors or Lexan windows or heads off a new 5.2 coyote motor from the GT350 motor. Believe me, we have 1 of 3!!! that were produced in 2013(claimed as a correct 14 now). The only white one produced. Actually 1 of 2 because one black one is still at Ford. But when you have an unlimited budget you can get anything approved for the right amount of money. Sad part is now my brother has 18hp put on his combo that NHRA refuses to remove. Bogus engine that should not pass tech got the HP. Any of us do that and we will get expelled from NHRA. Money makes the squeaky wheel quiet..............

06-28-2019, 10:36 AM	#24
BRETV Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 568 Likes: 4,216 Liked 776 Times in 199 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed I'm getting ready to jump in this class with both feet. Testing the car in a couple weeks and I'm already fighting HP. Hopefully not from a bogus car. With being Ford people and researching this combination for years. I was a little confused about all the different head numbers, figured it out though. Hopefully NHRA has!! Bret Velde 2003 FS/?

06-28-2019, 10:39 AM	#25
MPR Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 48 Likes: 0 Liked 23 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed Someone had to approve this bogus stuff! I'm sure there must be someone at NHRA who can provide an answer to this. Who instructed the tech officials to allow this and how long has this been going on? If the TI form has been updated and the bogus heads, pistons ect. have been removed shouldn't the HP factor be put back to whatever it was before these parts were used?

06-28-2019, 01:22 PM	#27
jamie2370 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Perry, GA Posts: 331 Likes: 11 Liked 239 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed I will correct one statement I made. It's Fezell's car that you got carbon doors approved for, not Carson's. But Carson's car has CNC heads that are made for a 5.2 gt350 combo. Runners are bigger, Valves are bigger, chamber is smaller. Not even Cobra Jet heads. But YOU got them approved by NHRA. Running a CNC head as the same combo as a car that has as cast heads is absolutely cheating. Just because you got it added to the approved list doesn't make it right. The Tech guys that tear you down just follow the numbers and guidelines set by Upper NHRA. So yeah...it passed. Stock Eliminator is for "as produced" cars. Not "oh this head is way better, lets get it approved even though it didn't come on it from Ford". As far as somebody keeping their word, Jeff's a big boy and will handle that himself. But YOU got 13hp put on the combo with one pass.......... YOU made the average higher, YOU went 1.20 under. So at this point the last 18hp is ALL on YOU. As far as the window deal. It didn't come from Ford with Lexan....

06-28-2019, 01:30 PM	#28
jamie2370 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Perry, GA Posts: 331 Likes: 11 Liked 239 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed And I will quote Charlie Bob.... When he actually wins more than one round of racing in a row against another car he might get some credit....doubt it... but maybe, just maybe. Until then, maybe even after...most likely still after...Ya'll will be hated on this sport. It's hard enough to keep the sport alive but with people like you that are determined to ruin something, it makes it even harder. Who really gives 2 flying F**** about HAVING to be #1 qualifier at a Divisional.

06-28-2019, 01:46 PM	#29
MPR Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 48 Likes: 0 Liked 23 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed Some one at NHRA had to put their name on changes made to the TI Forms. If they have that much influence in the tech dept then they have control over divisional tech inspectors. The part I don't understand is how these parts were ok'd without Ford Racing knowing about it? Someone should be able to answer this question. It's not fair for your performance in stock class to be compared to another car built to bogus engine specs. The HP factor should go back to what it was prior to the addition of non production parts usage. The more you look the more dirt you'll find.