Powerglides get 3 speeds. - Page 3

Dave Layer · 10-11-2007, 07:07 PM

The last time (2 years ago at Indy I believe) there was talk about Glides and 3 speeds it was the opposite of what is posted on this thread. Tech Officals were proposing the use of a Power Glide (with a weight reduction) in 3 speed combinations. Why? To save the racer $ by using the less expensive Glide (verses the cost of a 3 speed). Don't remember the amount of weight they were talking about but I think it was flat amount across the board which would probably help some and hurt others depending on weight and power of the car.

Only time will tell what if anything happens.

Bill Harris · 10-11-2007, 07:42 PM

Mr. Dedman wrote:
"I guess it died many years ago when they started allowing 3-speed Turbo 350s to replace the 4-speed 700R-4's and 200-4R's in G.M. late model cars. The rulebook states that you can't use a lockup converter, but these transmissions CAME with lockup converters... another can of "legal" worms."

My copy of the 2007 rulebook says: "Lockup converter permitted if OEM-equipped with lockup converter and OEM transmission is used. Otherwise, lockup converters prohibited."

If a lockup converter weren't allowed in any stocker, then a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be???

Wouldn't it have been nice if the NHRA used that same wording where they say "Electronic shifting of automatic transmission permitted in computer controlled electronic-fuel-injected vehicles." Wouldn't it have made more sense to write that rule like the lockup converter statement, something like: "Electronic shifting of automatic transmission permitted if OEM-equipped with electronically shifted transmission and OEM transmission is used. Otherwise electronic shifting prohibited." The poor wording of the rule lead to this crap about using solenoid shifters on TH200's/TH350/TH400 in EFI cars even though none of them are electronically operated transmissions. Now, rather than recind a rule that was not written clearly, the word on the street is that electronic shifting will be allowed on all stockers. Let's hope the NHRA doesn't make that mistake.

Jack McCarthy · 10-11-2007, 11:02 PM

i didnt ask for one but ill take a 3 speed... gotta run againts the caddy next year

as for as same number of forwards speeds thats been bull**** all along or the 1955-1961 chevy's would get 6 speed maunals... they came with as 3 speed with overdrive IN TRANS CASE and can move forward in 6 different ratios... i have the original trans but NHRA only lets late model cars count overdrive...
Randall Klien with a 6 speed... now thats neat !!!!!!!!!

captain jack

bill dedman · 10-11-2007, 11:08 PM

Bill Harris wrote:
"If a lockup converter weren't allowed in any stocker, then a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be???"

No moreso than allowing a 3-speed transmission in a car that came with a 4-speed automatic, just because the ratio in 4th is overdriven. That makes NO sense to me... The rulebook is deliberately ambiguous, I think.

They write things into the rulebook deliberately obtuse, in an effort to obfuscate and confuse... That way, they can "interpret" rules to satisfy their own requirements of the moment, any time there's an issue.

The language you quoted in the 2007 rulebook was not in the 1995 rulebiook (I don't have '96 or '97), but is in the 1998. so it's been in there a long time.

However, there were many years that went by that lockup converters were OEM "standard issue" on many, many cars, before that language got put into the rulebook. So, it follows that Bill Harris's contention >>> "a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be???" was, in fact, the case.

Don't think it can't happen, Bill... it apparently DID.

Maybe that's how this "new" language (10 years old) that I wasn't aware of, got into the 1996 or '97 rulebook.

It would seem that nobody with any technical savvy even (proof) READS the new rulebook before it goes to press, because within two or three months after it's distributed, National DRAGSTER has half a page of corrections for the mistakes in it (like the 14-inch-wide tires in the picture of the "Stocker" on the front page of the Stocker section a couple of years ago.)

Guess I can't complain, though, having missed the lockup converter language that's been in there for at least ten years...

My apologies.

Bill

ss wannabee · 10-12-2007, 05:36 PM

I understand trying to GIVE everyone the same advantage (if you will) by allowing a 3-speed trans in everyone's car...Maybe I'll keep the 'glide and ask for a weight break.....hmmmm.....100 lbs. sounds good....no, I'll ask for 250!!!!! What the heck!

Adger Smith · 10-12-2007, 06:49 PM

I would bet there is more than one transmission supplier wanting the change to 3 speeds to be adopted.
Here we go with the money issue again.

Dave Goob Cook · 10-13-2007, 09:13 AM

Rule book seems pretty clear to me that if the vehicle was available with a lock-up converter, it's legal.....that opens up TH-350C's and TH-200C's for a variety of the early 80's stuff.

Why are NHRA accepted adapter plates allowed?

What about aftermarket "Glide cases? The rules would indicate no.....

What a can of worms......

Speedracer · 10-13-2007, 10:01 AM

Why are Lock-Up Converters prohibited in Competition Eliminator?

div 5 · 10-13-2007, 07:18 PM

Because John was way to fast with one.

Speedracer · 10-13-2007, 07:45 PM

How does the tech department determine if a Lock-Up Converter is being used if they are prohibited?

10-11-2007, 07:07 PM	#21
Dave Layer Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 93 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. The last time (2 years ago at Indy I believe) there was talk about Glides and 3 speeds it was the opposite of what is posted on this thread. Tech Officals were proposing the use of a Power Glide (with a weight reduction) in 3 speed combinations. Why? To save the racer $ by using the less expensive Glide (verses the cost of a 3 speed). Don't remember the amount of weight they were talking about but I think it was flat amount across the board which would probably help some and hurt others depending on weight and power of the car. Only time will tell what if anything happens.

10-11-2007, 07:42 PM	#22
Bill Harris Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ooltewah, TN Posts: 421 Likes: 13 Liked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. Mr. Dedman wrote: "I guess it died many years ago when they started allowing 3-speed Turbo 350s to replace the 4-speed 700R-4's and 200-4R's in G.M. late model cars. The rulebook states that you can't use a lockup converter, but these transmissions CAME with lockup converters... another can of "legal" worms." My copy of the 2007 rulebook says: "Lockup converter permitted if OEM-equipped with lockup converter and OEM transmission is used. Otherwise, lockup converters prohibited." If a lockup converter weren't allowed in any stocker, then a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be??? Wouldn't it have been nice if the NHRA used that same wording where they say "Electronic shifting of automatic transmission permitted in computer controlled electronic-fuel-injected vehicles." Wouldn't it have made more sense to write that rule like the lockup converter statement, something like: "Electronic shifting of automatic transmission permitted if OEM-equipped with electronically shifted transmission and OEM transmission is used. Otherwise electronic shifting prohibited." The poor wording of the rule lead to this crap about using solenoid shifters on TH200's/TH350/TH400 in EFI cars even though none of them are electronically operated transmissions. Now, rather than recind a rule that was not written clearly, the word on the street is that electronic shifting will be allowed on all stockers. Let's hope the NHRA doesn't make that mistake.

10-11-2007, 11:02 PM	#23
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 477 Times in 117 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. i didnt ask for one but ill take a 3 speed... gotta run againts the caddy next year as for as same number of forwards speeds thats been bull**** all along or the 1955-1961 chevy's would get 6 speed maunals... they came with as 3 speed with overdrive IN TRANS CASE and can move forward in 6 different ratios... i have the original trans but NHRA only lets late model cars count overdrive... Randall Klien with a 6 speed... now thats neat !!!!!!!!! captain jack __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

10-11-2007, 11:08 PM	#24
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. Bill Harris wrote: "If a lockup converter weren't allowed in any stocker, then a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be???" No moreso than allowing a 3-speed transmission in a car that came with a 4-speed automatic, just because the ratio in 4th is overdriven. That makes NO sense to me... The rulebook is deliberately ambiguous, I think. They write things into the rulebook deliberately obtuse, in an effort to obfuscate and confuse... That way, they can "interpret" rules to satisfy their own requirements of the moment, any time there's an issue. The language you quoted in the 2007 rulebook was not in the 1995 rulebiook (I don't have '96 or '97), but is in the 1998. so it's been in there a long time. However, there were many years that went by that lockup converters were OEM "standard issue" on many, many cars, before that language got put into the rulebook. So, it follows that Bill Harris's contention >>> "a bone stock late model car that was in the classification guide wouldn't be legal to run stock in pure stock form. How screwed up would THAT be???" was, in fact, the case. Don't think it can't happen, Bill... it apparently DID. Maybe that's how this "new" language (10 years old) that I wasn't aware of, got into the 1996 or '97 rulebook. It would seem that nobody with any technical savvy even (proof) READS the new rulebook before it goes to press, because within two or three months after it's distributed, National DRAGSTER has half a page of corrections for the mistakes in it (like the 14-inch-wide tires in the picture of the "Stocker" on the front page of the Stocker section a couple of years ago.) Guess I can't complain, though, having missed the lockup converter language that's been in there for at least ten years... My apologies. Bill __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 10-11-2007 at 11:13 PM.

10-12-2007, 05:36 PM	#25
ss wannabee Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 663 Likes: 0 Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. I understand trying to GIVE everyone the same advantage (if you will) by allowing a 3-speed trans in everyone's car...Maybe I'll keep the 'glide and ask for a weight break.....hmmmm.....100 lbs. sounds good....no, I'll ask for 250!!!!! What the heck!

10-12-2007, 06:49 PM	#26
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. I would bet there is more than one transmission supplier wanting the change to 3 speeds to be adopted. Here we go with the money issue again. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

10-13-2007, 09:13 AM	#27
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. Rule book seems pretty clear to me that if the vehicle was available with a lock-up converter, it's legal.....that opens up TH-350C's and TH-200C's for a variety of the early 80's stuff. Why are NHRA accepted adapter plates allowed? What about aftermarket "Glide cases? The rules would indicate no..... What a can of worms......

10-13-2007, 10:01 AM	#28
Speedracer Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 59 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. Why are Lock-Up Converters prohibited in Competition Eliminator?

10-13-2007, 07:18 PM	#29
div 5 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. Because John was way to fast with one.

10-13-2007, 07:45 PM	#30
Speedracer Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 59 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Powerglides get 3 speeds. How does the tech department determine if a Lock-Up Converter is being used if they are prohibited?