And the penalties are???

[GUMP]

.......Had tech came over with that news after that run, I would have said, ok, let me fix my mistake, throw the run out and let’s move on! That DQ ended up costing me the division championship and a number 2 national finish.

You do the crime, you do the time. Technically you cheated your competitors. If you agree that they could throw out a qualifying run, you are agreeing that they can throw you out on any run. It sucks, but that was the rule at the time.

I would have been more curious to know who pointed out to the officials that your claim was wrong.......

[1347]

I am not applying this to what has happened recently, but I wonder if a fine will deter people more than a suspension? In Nascar, drivers lose points and there are fines attached. Drivers still get to race the following week. Crew cheifs get suspended, but not drivers. Now you can say that the drivers don't work on the car, but in our racing, there are many who don't work on their car either.

Just a question.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by BG56

Billy, are you in the belief that "they" were determined to find "something-anything" to bounce a previous offender with a too-fast run/car? (Not a loaded question, but let's cut to the chase)

No, I don't believe that "they" were determined to find "something-anything". I believe that Summers just ran into a Tech with a conservative translation of the rules. The Rule Book specifically says "Replacement carburetors permitted provided they are same model, type, throttle bore, and venturi size.". Now as far as I'm concerned, the "boat" carb that I have on my car fits the line perfectly BUT the boosters are different. Boosters are NOT addressed. Now, did Summers MODIFY the boosters? It does say something about him polishing the boosters but that's grasping at straws IMHO.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by 1347

I am not applying this to what has happened recently, but I wonder if a fine will deter people more than a suspension?

Duane, what is the winners purse at a NASCAR event? What is the winners purse (not contingency, that's different) for a Sportsman Racer at an NHRA event? Now cheating IS cheating and nobody dislikes cheaters more than I do BUT is it right to fine a Sportsman Racer 50% more than the cash purse for an infraction that could be deemed legal by a different Tech? Is it right to fine a Sportsman Racer for an oil down? Ya know, we don't have big $$$ sponsors picking up the tab for our fines. We aren't Professional Racers, we're Sportsman Racers and NHRA continually reminds us of that so it's perfectly clear!

[1347]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Duane, what is the winners purse at a NASCAR event? What is the winners purse (not contingency, that's different) for a Sportsman Racer at an NHRA event? Now cheating IS cheating and nobody dislikes cheaters more than I do BUT is it right to fine a Sportsman Racer 50% more than the cash purse for an infraction that could be deemed legal by a different Tech? Is it right to fine a Sportsman Racer for an oil down? Ya know, we don't have big $$$ sponsors picking up the tab for our fines. We aren't Professional Racers, we're Sportsman Racers and NHRA continually reminds us of that so it's perfectly clear!

I understand that the fine is alot more than the purse, and I don't know if there is even a structure on fines or if they would be applied fairly. My only point I was trying to make was, would a fine be more of a deterrent than a suspension. We have no idea what happened with the polished booster. Was it modified, cleaned up, or just not reanodized from a rebuild. We will probably never know, and any speculation on wether this was the second time he was caught doing something completely illegal or not is just that. I wouldnt expect him to come on here to plead his case.

Isn't their an appeal process at this point for him?

Also, the panel that is made up of racers around the country (SRAC) , do they have any meetings about this stuff with NHRA? And who are they made up of? Are they voted in by racers, or just appointed by NHRA?

[Mike Jones]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Now cheating IS cheating and nobody dislikes cheaters more than I do BUT is it right to fine a Sportsman Racer 50% more than the cash purse for an infraction that could be deemed legal by a different Tech?

Great point!!

[Mike Pearson]

My guess is it depends on the level of violation to the rule. Something that just "looks wrong" would probably be considered a minor violation. Thus being ejected from the event attended and having to pass tear down before the next race. Something major like a completely wrong sized carb or throttle body or even the wrong engine or engine size would be flagrant and should get you suspended for some time and loss of points.

Years back I won class at the gators and went through tear down. One of my intake valves measured .001 under the low limit. The valve was badly tuliped. I was tossed for the event and had to show up at the next event with the head off and have the valve size checked before I could race. I was also placed on 6 mos. tech probation. That infraction was considered minor. FYI I put new valves in the heads for the next race and the car picked up a tenth.

A mistake on your tech card should be able to be fixed as long as it is done before the last Q run.

[SSDiv6]

I have a background on one of the most regulated industries in the world; aviation.

In my career, I deal with the FAA, EASA, DCMA and many other technical oversight regulatory agencies. These regulations and requirements make NHRA regulations look insignificant. Nevertheless, the big difference is that the aviation regulations are more specific and detailed, hence, reducing the chance of moronic interpretations by both the end user and the regulator.

The problem for many years is that the NHRA regulations leave too much open for interpretation not only by the racer, but also by NHRA Tech. How many times does NHRA Tech disagree among themselves between each Division and even with the main office with Glendora? This is the reason why many have stated throughout the years that there is a "West Coast" and "East Coast" rule book. What is acceptable in one Division may not be acceptable in another, and what is acceptable in Divisions, may not be acceptable by the main office.

Like Billy Ness and Mark Yacavone have stated many times, what is accepted in carburetors is all over the place and not defined. It also applies to throttle bodies after NHRA open the door for aftermarket throttle bodies like did for carburetors.

NHRA needs to allow SRAC, racers, engine builders and the aftermarket to be more involved in defining the technical aspects of the regulations. Even the FAA has a system called Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) in which a public notice is issued when they wish to add, remove, or change a rule or regulation as part of the rulemaking process. It allows the end user, other regulatory and technical entities and even the public to comment on the proposed rule changes and/or new rules. In NHRA's current system, they issue a new rule without consultation, to later rescind or delay its implementation after racers complain about the changed rule or new rule.

[west coast]

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

A mistake on your tech card should be able to be fixed as long as it is done before the last Q run.

Mike you must claim your class before qualifing. If you were allow to change because you were in the wrong class, then you would get to pick a class after see a qualifing sheet. Everybody dodging and hunting for a heads up would be doing this.

[west coast]

Bryan Worner post about tear down at the trailer, I have been torn down twice now both in my trailer. I was sealed at the scales then had to wait till tech came before i could start tearing down. That would be the only way this would work. The track that i was at doesnt have a barn to tear down in. But i would tear down where ever they asked me too.

My other question is on the throttle body. Some one said its on the appoved list? I looked at the approved list no throttle bodies listed? Looked at engine blueprints spec and is list and it is listed there, seems it should be on the approved list so everbody knows its approved. How many other appoved throttle bodies are out there hiden in the engine blueprint specs, I know there is not one for the my car, fox body mustangs. My other questoin is why an aftermarket throttle body? Its not like a 1960s carb that is hard or non plentiful to find. You could probably still order one from Chevy.