deep staging

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Signman

Deep stage racers want the tree held so they can take control of the race. If this was not the case they would have sought a fair solution.

Frank, I don't believe this is the case, for the most part.

Most just want a fair amount of time ..Same as the guy in the other lane, who does a lengthy burnout, then comes into pre-stage second, then puts it in neutral and cleans out the carb, two or three times, and then bumps it in ever so slowly...
This guy is protected by the system. The deep stager is not. Therefore he puts deep on the window, just in case the other racer does a rush job and puts the squeeze on him.

Now, in the Compulink example, the deep stager would be expecting extra time, and that wouldn't be fair.
Best thing would be to turn off the Autostart for S/SS. If a racer wants to rush up and put on two lights, or even knock off the pre-stage, and sit there, getting hot while his tires cool, that would be on him.
Most (notice I said most) racers have been doing this a long time, and are not going to play games. They're just going to go about their business and stage as usual.

[Dan Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Just like checkers they make a move I make a move according to the rules. Most go to the races to win within the rule’s structure. To my knowledge nobody did anything outside the rules.

Somewhat akin to being the last car to the lanes...

[Larry Hill]

Going by the rules is always a good thing. If the rules don’t mention being last as an infraction it must be ok.

[Signman]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Frank, I don't believe this is the case, for the most part.

Most just want a fair amount of time ..Same as the guy in the other lane, who does a lengthy burnout, then comes into pre-stage second, then puts it in neutral and cleans out the carb, two or three times, and then bumps it in ever so slowly...
This guy is protected by the system. The deep stager is not. Therefore he puts deep on the window, just in case the other racer does a rush job and puts the squeeze on him.

Now, in the Compulink example, the deep stager would be expecting extra time, and that wouldn't be fair.
Best thing would be to turn off the Autostart for S/SS. If a racer wants to rush up and put on two lights, or even knock off the pre-stage, and sit there, getting hot while his tires cool, that would be on him.
Most (notice I said most) racers have been doing this a long time, and are not going to play games. They're just going to go about their business and stage as usual.

Mark
You want fair there is fair but no one wants to talk about it or make it happen. Deep would not be a discussion if racers wanted it fair.



"BUT there is a fair solution: "Called Compulink who told me with some additional programming to Autostart this could be taken care of. Add a D before your dial when race control puts it in with the D the staging lights will allow deep by the full stage light not coming on until the prestage beam closed. Opponent would see the same as if shallow.""

My conclusion through the years is most who deep stage do not want a fair method applied to Compulink. it already is programmed in other systems but no one has turned it on. There is a racer who goes deep in one motion pre to staged to deep but will not move until his opponent is fully staged. There you are shallow at 3500 waiting tell me this is not taking control of the race.......

[Mark Yacavone]

Frank,

I did say "for the most part" and " racers want to be fair", etc.

Between my ex and myself, we've won quite a few local races while deep staging.
In the beginning, I had to ask her to hustle up and get in there sooner. Other guys are not going to like it and it will cause problems. Personally, I would usually get in deep before the other guy went to full stage.

There are always going to be a few bad actors , like there were in S/SS, 20 years ago.
My opinion is that a few shouldn't dictate policy for others, as far as with NHRA.
Meanwhile, the pro's are still allowed to go deep.

In about 1963 or so, the pre-stage bulb was put there as a courtesy to the racers.
To now use them for the blue light special, to disqualify someone, is not right. Again, my opinion.

Now on the Compulink "D" deal..They're not gonna do that. Next thing that might happen is the dial-in computer operator misses a "D", and the racer will demand a re-run, which he's not gonna get. NHRA always takes the easy way, whether it's fair or not.

[curtis reed]

Can I ask if I'm missing something here? Which can be the case from time to time. LOL



The way I look at it if he is going deep I'm not getting on the converter or moving until 3 lights are lit. 1 of mine and 2 of his. With that said they haven't allowed deepstaging in my area since I don't know when and I've never had to worry about it but I don't think it would be a big deal to me as long as they were made to inform the shallow car.

[M120]

The suggestion to make it look correct is a good suggestion to bring back Deep. It'll never happen though. NHRA and Brockmeyer don't care.



Just so I'm clear, the process for the D racer in your suggestion would be roll in so both beams blocked would only light the prestage and unblock the beam closest to burn out box to show fully staged. Good idea.

I had something in mind years ago that adding a D would make it .600 second from last yellow to green allowing a slower car to react. The .600 is just an example. It could be less such as .550 . Just as long it's the same nationwide.


In both scenario's, one would have same amount to be fully staged before being timed out. No holding the tree regardless of who fully staged first.

They changed the tree for PSM years ago. It got changed back but NHRA changed the tree tree for a pro class. We know it was the one who changes their name every few years. Won't do it for their added income though. They'd rather racers spend more money to be competitive.

Part of the problem is many racers don't know how the tree/ timing system works.

I see that Portatree is being used at National event tracks. From what I understand, tracks are tired of 1980 technology based systems. ������
Maybe Accutime would be interested as well.

Doesn't matter much to me lately but something to discuss, approve or disagree.

FB/Et/Index Racer
Can't afford Class Racing. You all crazy!
Mark Mueller

[partsbob67]

so see if this sounds fair. just like at the divsion 7 et races. deep allowed. tree is not held. the opponet turns on his pre stage bulb, i come in turn on both bulbs, then we each have 10 seconds to finish staging. if my opponet turns on both bulbs it's my job to get in there if i can.

[Signman]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Now on the Compulink "D" deal..They're not gonna do that. Next thing that might happen is the dial-in computer operator misses a "D", and the racer will demand a re-run, which he's not gonna get. NHRA always takes the easy way, whether it's fair or not.

I actually spoke to Brockmeyer it could be done he against deep and NHRA will not demand this be fixed. Racers will not demand action we just want to bs on message boards.
The excuse race control may miss putting in the D would be the same as accepting an incorrect dial. There can be an indicator on the scoreboard next to the dial. This really is not tough to do.



With no solution put in play that removes the human factor and fair to all this conversation is moot. More racers may try deep if it was in the system. Deep=Dead

[Signman]

Originally Posted by M120

Just so I'm clear, the process for the D racer in your suggestion would be roll in so both beams blocked would only light the prestage and unblock the beam closest to burn out box to show fully staged. Good idea.

Yes
it's more than a suggestion Compulink can add it, Portatree already has it.