worst red light debate, again!

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

If both racers red light, why not disqualify both of them. If both drivers red light, and both hit the wall, the one with the worst damage loses. If both red light and one hits the wall and one crosses the center line, the one who doesn't cross the finish line wins. If you have a bye run and red light, hit the wall, and cross the center line........who wins then.... If you have a bye run and hit the wall, cross the centerline, leak oil all over the track and take out the timing lights, who wins then................this is all so unfair. First or worse, if the other guy goes red and I then sit and take a 2 second light, will you say that is unfair since I didn't try to cut a light? Give it a rest.....

"If both racers red light, why not disqualify both of them."

If you did that, in the interest of consistency, you would then, have to disqualify both cars in a double break-out.

Does that appeal to you?

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Rich, thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

Steve Taylor was a friend who championed this cause for awhile, but he had another system I never could get into that was based on comparing "packages" to determine a winner.

The worse (or, double) red light system was a product of a guy in Fremont CA (and not Steve Taylor, I believe) whose name is Bob Mikulic. He told me about it back in the '90s, when I still lived in the San Francisco Bay area. I couldn't grasp the value of it immediately and frankly, didn't pay much attention to it UNTIL I had had time for it to soak in.

Eventually, I began to understand (I am a slow learner) and finally, one day it was cclear as a bell.

I dunno how long that took, but it was a while, as I'd been used to the first red light deal for many, many years... that was my "norm."

Bob Mickuic was a bracket racer who raced supercharged Studebakers for years.

Anyway, he's still around, and is mildly interested in the worse red light rule, but has little hope that he'll ever live to see it in place. I feel pretty much the same way.

So all of this has it's roots to the SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA?
Are you kidding me? Now, finally this makes sense!!!
Where EVERYTHING has to be fair; they don't believe in scoring children's game's, everybody that tries get's an A....
Yes, seriously, this all makes sense now!

[Ed Fernandez]

From now on this is the only red light I'm giving any thought to:

[Bobby Zlatkin]

Originally posted by Jeff Lee;
........The distraction of an opponents red light sometimes has the opposite affect on my as I seem to side step the clutch at that point. Then again, a red light was maybe in my cards mo matter what the other lane did; we'll never know.

Originally posted by Rich Bibel;
.....In all the years I've raced I can't really recall a race where we both redlit.....and I was the faster car in many races and benefitted from opponents redlights. It usually distracted me and I was late, not red.......Fair is fair and it makes sense.

In the intertest of "fair is fair", and to make 'first or worst' work, the opposite side of the tree must be blocked from each competitor.

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

So all of this has it's roots to the SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA?
Are you kidding me? Now, finally this makes sense!!!
Where EVERYTHING has to be fair; they don't believe in scoring children's game's, everybody that tries get's an A....
Yes, seriously, this all makes sense now!

You are too funny!!! LOL!

[Bimbo Jones]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right but it appears you are stating in a heads up race with double red light then the worst offender looses, not the first. Is that what your saying? And what track is that system in place because that's not the rule I know. It's FIRST red light loses, not worst red light loses.

Yeah, My statement didn't read well did it Jeff? But in a heads up race the first would be the worst. Anyway this issue will never go anywhere unless NHRA sees a way that they can squeeze extra revenue out of the sportsman racers. I really don't have much of an issue with the way it is now for Foot brakers(stock) and No Box(SuperStock)racers. But just in formats where cross talk is used. so I guess I really need to take my soap box to a bracket racing forum. But I sure enjoy to keeping up with whats going on in SS and Stk.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Bimbo Jones

Yeah, My statement didn't read well did it Jeff? But in a heads up race the first would be the worst. Anyway this issue will never go anywhere unless NHRA sees a way that they can squeeze extra revenue out of the sportsman racers. I really don't have much of an issue with the way it is now for Foot brakers(stock) and No Box(SuperStock)racers. But just in formats where cross talk is used. so I guess I really need to take my soap box to a bracket racing forum. But I sure enjoy to keeping up with whats going on in SS and Stk.

Bimbo,you think you can take old Bill over there to the bracket race section ?

[Rich Biebel]

Stock is bracket racing Ed......has been for years......Sure there is always the possibility of heads up runs and there is qualifying but overall it's bracket racing. The people who have won the most in the last 10 years were/are great bracket racers first....

If it isn't than leave your shoe polish home and race off National Records....with some sort of different break out rules like we did in my JR.Stock days.....

And if you run under the record to win a National event it becomes a new record.........


Redlight rules would be the least of your worries....LOL

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Stock is bracket racing Ed......has been for years......Sure there is always the possibility of heads up runs and there is qualifying but overall it's bracket racing. The people who have won the most in the last 10 years were/are great bracket racers first....

If it isn't than leave your shoe polish home and race off National Records....with some sort of different break out rules like we did in my JR.Stock days.....

And if you run under the record to win a National event it becomes a new record.........


Redlight rules would be the least of your worries....LOL

But the pertinent part of that esxchange is this: Handicapped racing in Class racing treats the competitors IDENTICALLY with Bracket racing... IDENTICALLY.

So, the unfair practices that go on under the auspices (look it up, Ed F.) of the rules "enjoyed" by the Stock/Super-Stock racers are also visited upon the Bracket racers.

No difference that I am aware of.

If EITHER of you EDs" can show me a difference, I'd appreciate it.

I don't think there IS any... which simply means that I (as a Bracket Racer) suffer the same unnecessary unequal red light jeopardy that Class racers face when they run a car with a quicker dial-in.

THAT is why all the pissin' and moanin' I do on this forum makes sense: the Brackets likely won't change their M.O. until NHRA does.... which could be never (and, probably will.)

[Ed Carpenter]

This horse has been dead so long it has turned to dust!!!!!!! LOL