Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means - Page 4

Bruce Noland · 04-13-2008, 04:40 PM

Lynn,

You have posted this comment about the top 4% of wage earners paying 96% of "all taxes collected" several times before. Please clarify "all taxes collected" for us. I guess you are not including any earnings outside of wages. Correct? I am very interested in knowing how 4% of the wage earners are paying the bill for 280 million Americans. Maybe Dave Ring can help us out with this one.

Rick Angles · 04-13-2008, 09:46 PM

I am one who used to spend money all the time. Just tell me what the monthly payments are and where to sign. Working for a new car dealership as a technician, you see the paychecks go up and down a lot. I bracket raced occasionally but never got to serious. Sometime around the turn of the century, I started seeing the work changing, which meant more wildly swinging paychecks. And the last few years have gotten worse. Living in central Ohio, you constantly see in the paper or on the news about companies shutting down. About 4-5 years ago I started getting more into my income/expenses. Total card debt now is less then $400, Tahoe will be paid off in 4 months and house is on the downhill side.

What does all this mean? I bought my Starfire last year to build as a stocker, a dream of mine. Work has been going at a crawl because I am trying to pay for everything as I go. Bargains always help as I found a set of new pistons on ebay for 0.99. Thats right and I was the only bidder. So total with shipping was just over $13! Goal at the beginning of the project was to have it running before the end of '07. It changed to maybe summer/fall of '08. Now I am not sure about making it this fall, maybe by next year. And after it is running, I still need a way to get it to the track. Enclosed trailer would be nice but an open one is looking better all the time.
Guess there are always something more important comes up and our fun hobby will have to take a back seat,

Chuck Porter · 04-13-2008, 09:49 PM

First of all I?d like to say I am enjoying this thread. There are many valuable comments and insights being presented.

Dick ? I can relate in many ways to what you are saying. One of our son?s is an engineer and he was required to take an economics course. It planted the seed early in his career and he has prospered in part because of it. This wasn?t the case when we were young. In high school we took basic economics and business. You know the drill, how to prepare a budget, write a business letter etc. I suppose it was better than nothing.

Jack ? I particularly like the idea of a mandatory economics class in high school.

When reduced down to it?s simplest form, ?education? is the key. If we are well informed, most people would be less likely to fall into traps such as the sub prime issue. I said ?most? people, but there are a hell of a lot of people who would ignore the warning signs and dive right in.

Denial & Ego
Most of us involved in this sport would like to win. I think that is a given. We also apply that emotion to business or our work. Most of us can keep winning and losing in perspective. However there are those to whom winning and their ?image? is everything. You know who they are. They will sell their soul in order to keep up appearances. There comes a day when you have to pay the piper. It baffles me how some seemingly intelligent people have allowed themselves to get to a point where they are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. This basic ARITHMATIC and they ?DO? teach that in school! Maybe these people are using the New Math?Denial is a powerful thing! Do they deserve a bail out? I think not.

Who was it that said, ?There?s no free lunch?.

Chuck

gymracer01 · 04-13-2008, 10:19 PM

Very interesting thread at a very interesting time. I'm lucky enough to race with cash. That's because I'm retired from one state and went right back to work in another doing the same job. Being older I have learned the hard way to operate this way. I built a couple of cars in the 70's with every dollar I could scrape up and not have enough money to race them. I had planned to build an engine to run SS/GT with my car this year, but with fuel prices and uncertianity, I'm holding on for now. I race with the NMCA which has less races and cost less to run. I have always been a fan of NHRA but realized I could not afford it when I started racing Nationaly in 99. I'm very thankful that the NMCA schedule looked good for us last year and we were able to win the championship. We went to the first race in Bradenton and runner-upped this year so we broke even or better on that but will not run all the races this season unless we go to more finals. I love racing as much as anyone but I won't put my family in danger to do it and hope no one else will either. Like someone on here said, you can tell by my tow rig, I run a cash deal. Good luck all and let's hope it gets much better.
Jim Netherland
2007 Nostaglia Super Stock World Champion
1967 Buick GS 400 B/NSS

Adger Smith · 04-13-2008, 10:43 PM

This is a great thread. I have enjoyed the comments.
Dick said:Yesterday I visited a Opthmology school with our son. I was impressed, oh yes they had equipment, they had personel but the big impressive point was they started first year of the four year school with personal finance, business investing, how to evaluate a medical practice, and how to create a financially secure future with stock and investing. These classes are part of the required courses for four years. What an improvement. WE ALL NEED EDUCATION on money issues.
I am really impressed too. I've run my own business for 36 years & have watched other locals come & go. I've had employees that had little or no understanding of business, yet they were considered some of the best @ local high schools. Another thing I have noticed is the younger generations have not been taught to think things out. I would say it is because of teaching "for the test" instead of teaching a student to reason. It is refreshing to see the Opthmology School teaching a student how to stay in business first, then how to do the business second. What good does it do if one is the best in his field & he can't make his business profitable & be a success? These teaching/school issues need our attention & have for a while.

Gary Smith · 04-13-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Fuller

Bruce,
All you need to understand in our economy is the origin of the "Federal Reserve". Search it, and then research it. Please,for the sake of all that is still good, understand the beast we are all fighting against.

The Federal Reserve.. KNOW YOUR ENEMY!

Jason, this is the exact issue that drove me to starting this thread. I encourage everyone to google the Fed Reserve and the ugly truth behind it. I was shocked what I found out.

Adger Smith · 04-13-2008, 11:35 PM

oh yea! Good old Ben Franklin & his paper money.

FED 387 · 04-14-2008, 12:43 AM

My truck is paid for so's the trailer---the race car is too owe $1500 on Sears card bought a new washer dryer and stove---BUT I GOT MY HEALTH !!! Other than that liifes great!!! My wife recently retired ,but before she did she was involved with putting on seminars for all types of physicians,These were put on in conjunction with Johns Hopkins Univ. ---These seminars were called "The business of medicine"---Drs. would attend the courses and it was amazing to see such well educated people with not a lick of sense about how much money they were owed or where it all was going too!!!! These guys had receivables that were far in excess of most peoples annual incomes( sometimes in the 100 of thousands of dollars) and yet they did not know this!!! The course was a basic economics course for people with Doctors degrees in medicine kinda like what you might teach to a senior in hi school or en entry level college freshman/sophomore.. When the classes were over you should have heard some of the comments like"wow I never understood where my money was going or why I had never even collected the money in the first place/ or I didn;t know I made that MUCH where is it??? !!!! Sad but true... I live in an area that has become a "yuppie" area the last 10-15 years-These 30 something guys live in 10,000 foot houses worth 2-3 MILLION dollars with real estate tax bills of 40-50 THOUSAND dollars a year-wives don't work --kids in daycare all day---lawn service cuts the grass--- pool guy maintains the pool- and these guys bounce checks all over town---Many are on a cash only basis with the pool/lawn /cleaning lady --PAY BEFORE WE DO THE WORK!!!-My last tax bill on 18 acres of FARM land was $21000 if I subdivided it my tax bill would zoom to $150 THOUSAND on vacant property ----Schools are great but I have a volunteer fire dept--county police protectiion--NO parks-- a library that is mediocre---County plows the snow and maintains the roads--but you should see the PENSIONS these govt workers get!!!!! It's enought to make you vomit---Well my 2 CENTS---Comp 387

Philip Saran · 04-14-2008, 01:58 AM

This has been a wonderful thread, it should open the eyes of people who think
everyone lives the golden life.

I live in SOCAL and too many people here think it is where you live, what you
drive and what style of clothes you wear that make the person.

The Duster was paid for in cash, the car trailer too. The parts I buy for it I pay
as I go. Where ever I can I try to horse trade for parts. Yes I have a payment
on the truck, but small. Wife drives a 2002 Toyota with 118K and still ticking.

Bunkster · 04-14-2008, 05:31 AM

Still one of the best books written regarding who has wealth and how they acquired it, is The Millionaire Next Door. It bursts so many myths on who is rich and how they got there.

One of the more interesting conclusions was how these people purchase vehicles for their everyday transportation: They buy them by the pound.

04-13-2008, 04:40 PM	#31
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means Lynn, You have posted this comment about the top 4% of wage earners paying 96% of "all taxes collected" several times before. Please clarify "all taxes collected" for us. I guess you are not including any earnings outside of wages. Correct? I am very interested in knowing how 4% of the wage earners are paying the bill for 280 million Americans. Maybe Dave Ring can help us out with this one. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

04-13-2008, 09:46 PM	#32
Rick Angles Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Circleville,Ohio Posts: 113 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means I am one who used to spend money all the time. Just tell me what the monthly payments are and where to sign. Working for a new car dealership as a technician, you see the paychecks go up and down a lot. I bracket raced occasionally but never got to serious. Sometime around the turn of the century, I started seeing the work changing, which meant more wildly swinging paychecks. And the last few years have gotten worse. Living in central Ohio, you constantly see in the paper or on the news about companies shutting down. About 4-5 years ago I started getting more into my income/expenses. Total card debt now is less then $400, Tahoe will be paid off in 4 months and house is on the downhill side. What does all this mean? I bought my Starfire last year to build as a stocker, a dream of mine. Work has been going at a crawl because I am trying to pay for everything as I go. Bargains always help as I found a set of new pistons on ebay for 0.99. Thats right and I was the only bidder. So total with shipping was just over $13! Goal at the beginning of the project was to have it running before the end of '07. It changed to maybe summer/fall of '08. Now I am not sure about making it this fall, maybe by next year. And after it is running, I still need a way to get it to the track. Enclosed trailer would be nice but an open one is looking better all the time. Guess there are always something more important comes up and our fun hobby will have to take a back seat,

04-13-2008, 09:49 PM	#33
Chuck Porter Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 104 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means First of all I?d like to say I am enjoying this thread. There are many valuable comments and insights being presented. Dick ? I can relate in many ways to what you are saying. One of our son?s is an engineer and he was required to take an economics course. It planted the seed early in his career and he has prospered in part because of it. This wasn?t the case when we were young. In high school we took basic economics and business. You know the drill, how to prepare a budget, write a business letter etc. I suppose it was better than nothing. Jack ? I particularly like the idea of a mandatory economics class in high school. When reduced down to it?s simplest form, ?education? is the key. If we are well informed, most people would be less likely to fall into traps such as the sub prime issue. I said ?most? people, but there are a hell of a lot of people who would ignore the warning signs and dive right in. Denial & Ego Most of us involved in this sport would like to win. I think that is a given. We also apply that emotion to business or our work. Most of us can keep winning and losing in perspective. However there are those to whom winning and their ?image? is everything. You know who they are. They will sell their soul in order to keep up appearances. There comes a day when you have to pay the piper. It baffles me how some seemingly intelligent people have allowed themselves to get to a point where they are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. This basic ARITHMATIC and they ?DO? teach that in school! Maybe these people are using the New Math?Denial is a powerful thing! Do they deserve a bail out? I think not. Who was it that said, ?There?s no free lunch?. Chuck

04-13-2008, 10:19 PM	#34
gymracer01 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Middle Tennesse Posts: 46 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means Very interesting thread at a very interesting time. I'm lucky enough to race with cash. That's because I'm retired from one state and went right back to work in another doing the same job. Being older I have learned the hard way to operate this way. I built a couple of cars in the 70's with every dollar I could scrape up and not have enough money to race them. I had planned to build an engine to run SS/GT with my car this year, but with fuel prices and uncertianity, I'm holding on for now. I race with the NMCA which has less races and cost less to run. I have always been a fan of NHRA but realized I could not afford it when I started racing Nationaly in 99. I'm very thankful that the NMCA schedule looked good for us last year and we were able to win the championship. We went to the first race in Bradenton and runner-upped this year so we broke even or better on that but will not run all the races this season unless we go to more finals. I love racing as much as anyone but I won't put my family in danger to do it and hope no one else will either. Like someone on here said, you can tell by my tow rig, I run a cash deal. Good luck all and let's hope it gets much better. Jim Netherland 2007 Nostaglia Super Stock World Champion 1967 Buick GS 400 B/NSS

04-13-2008, 10:43 PM	#35
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means This is a great thread. I have enjoyed the comments. Dick said:Yesterday I visited a Opthmology school with our son. I was impressed, oh yes they had equipment, they had personel but the big impressive point was they started first year of the four year school with personal finance, business investing, how to evaluate a medical practice, and how to create a financially secure future with stock and investing. These classes are part of the required courses for four years. What an improvement. WE ALL NEED EDUCATION on money issues. I am really impressed too. I've run my own business for 36 years & have watched other locals come & go. I've had employees that had little or no understanding of business, yet they were considered some of the best @ local high schools. Another thing I have noticed is the younger generations have not been taught to think things out. I would say it is because of teaching "for the test" instead of teaching a student to reason. It is refreshing to see the Opthmology School teaching a student how to stay in business first, then how to do the business second. What good does it do if one is the best in his field & he can't make his business profitable & be a success? These teaching/school issues need our attention & have for a while. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

04-13-2008, 11:35 PM	#37
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means oh yea! Good old Ben Franklin & his paper money. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS)

04-14-2008, 12:43 AM	#38
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,400 Likes: 482 Liked 320 Times in 172 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means My truck is paid for so's the trailer---the race car is too owe $1500 on Sears card bought a new washer dryer and stove---BUT I GOT MY HEALTH !!! Other than that liifes great!!! My wife recently retired ,but before she did she was involved with putting on seminars for all types of physicians,These were put on in conjunction with Johns Hopkins Univ. ---These seminars were called "The business of medicine"---Drs. would attend the courses and it was amazing to see such well educated people with not a lick of sense about how much money they were owed or where it all was going too!!!! These guys had receivables that were far in excess of most peoples annual incomes( sometimes in the 100 of thousands of dollars) and yet they did not know this!!! The course was a basic economics course for people with Doctors degrees in medicine kinda like what you might teach to a senior in hi school or en entry level college freshman/sophomore.. When the classes were over you should have heard some of the comments like"wow I never understood where my money was going or why I had never even collected the money in the first place/ or I didn;t know I made that MUCH where is it??? !!!! Sad but true... I live in an area that has become a "yuppie" area the last 10-15 years-These 30 something guys live in 10,000 foot houses worth 2-3 MILLION dollars with real estate tax bills of 40-50 THOUSAND dollars a year-wives don't work --kids in daycare all day---lawn service cuts the grass--- pool guy maintains the pool- and these guys bounce checks all over town---Many are on a cash only basis with the pool/lawn /cleaning lady --PAY BEFORE WE DO THE WORK!!!-My last tax bill on 18 acres of FARM land was $21000 if I subdivided it my tax bill would zoom to $150 THOUSAND on vacant property ----Schools are great but I have a volunteer fire dept--county police protectiion--NO parks-- a library that is mediocre---County plows the snow and maintains the roads--but you should see the PENSIONS these govt workers get!!!!! It's enought to make you vomit---Well my 2 CENTS---Comp 387

04-14-2008, 01:58 AM	#39
Philip Saran Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Parker, CO. Posts: 727 Likes: 160 Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means This has been a wonderful thread, it should open the eyes of people who think everyone lives the golden life. I live in SOCAL and too many people here think it is where you live, what you drive and what style of clothes you wear that make the person. The Duster was paid for in cash, the car trailer too. The parts I buy for it I pay as I go. Where ever I can I try to horse trade for parts. Yes I have a payment on the truck, but small. Wife drives a 2002 Toyota with 118K and still ticking. __________________ Phil Saran Parker, Colorado

04-14-2008, 05:31 AM	#40
Bunkster Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 307 Likes: 0 Liked 43 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Economics & Racing Beyond Our Means Still one of the best books written regarding who has wealth and how they acquired it, is The Millionaire Next Door. It bursts so many myths on who is rich and how they got there. One of the more interesting conclusions was how these people purchase vehicles for their everyday transportation: They buy them by the pound.