Validity - Page 4

Bruce Fulper · 05-12-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

In this instance, there was one round of qualifying, then eliminations began later the same day. Under these circumstances, there would not be a way to file a protest a day prior to eliminations.

You could either rule there be no protests of any kind when the schedule gets shuffled like it did, or you allow for protests on the same day.

Looks like that says it all.

I miss step.

CycloneFE · 05-12-2007, 01:46 PM

While I was there at Gateway on the day in question, I was unaware of any of this going on.

Several of you elude to the fact you might have some details that would answer a lot of the questions, shame on you. Don't even waste our time here. Lets get it all out. Facts especially, and come up with a suggestion to NHRA. Then, as said previously, they need to have another course of action in the event that the race schedule has to change.

NHRA is making those changes for the pro's and the tv scheduling, well this is a by-product that THEY must deal with.

Cyclone FE

Bruce Noland · 05-12-2007, 02:57 PM

Jack,

Good for you! I heard you gained some much-needed weight over the winter!

Bruce Witherspoon,

Please give us some information about the time line. I don't think anybody has come up with accurate numbers yet.

Larry Hill · 05-12-2007, 10:43 PM

We finished up running our 1 round of qualifying and class around 10:30. The protest came up around 11:00. We were scheduled to run 1st round at 3:30. We didn't run 1st round until 5:30 or so, but this still would not have given Paul time to get his engine back together had he been legal.
The protest should not have been allowed to happen in the 1st place. That was not enough time to get reassembled.

Good luck to all you points leaders later in the season when your opponent wants to keep you out of competition for the race. Just protest---on the day of eliminations and your competitor won't be able to get back together in time to race.

And this is supposed to be FUN!!!

Patsy

Larry

Bob Orme · 05-13-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

We finished up running our 1 round of qualifying and class around 10:30. The protest came up around 11:00. We were scheduled to run 1st round at 3:30. We didn't run 1st round until 5:30 or so, but this still would not have given Paul time to get his engine back together had he been legal.
The protest should not have been allowed to happen in the 1st place. That was not enough time to get reassembled.

Good luck to all you points leaders later in the season when your opponent wants to keep you out of competition for the race. Just protest---on the day of eliminations and your competitor won't be able to get back together in time to race.

If the one round of qualifying wasn't also class eliminations, class contingency money wouldn't be a consideration, and it'd be easier to say no protests. I'm just asking here -- would you all be in favor of no protests, knowing that everyone knows the night before you make a qualifying pass that it is also a class eliminations winner or loser pass? If someone running in your class runs best-of-class, a number better than they ever have before, would you point to the rulebook and say I'm not going to think about protesting because the rulebook says I can't because of the one-day prior stipulation? Again, I'm just asking. A class win can be much more than just a small Wally. Should there be a provision in the rulebook to cover such a situation, or should it be, no same-day protests, no matter what?

05-13-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

We finished up running our 1 round of qualifying and class around 10:30. The protest came up around 11:00. We were scheduled to run 1st round at 3:30. We didn't run 1st round until 5:30 or so, but this still would not have given Paul time to get his engine back together had he been legal.
Larry

The time line Larry posted is accurate. The only thing I can add is after the engine was pulled and disassembled, we weighed the piston at about 1:45. Had it have been correct we would have handed it back and the thrash would have began to make 1st round. With the enthusiasm of the group working on the car I feel that although it may have been tight timewise, they would have made it to the lanes on time.

For those questioning the accuracy of the scales used to weigh the piston rod assembly, anyone who has a gram scale also has a set of gram weights that assures their scale is correct. NHRA is no exception and the scale is always checked at each use.

Here is a tip for anyone racing the LT1 or LS1. The reason some can remove a piston rod so quickly is the engine does not have to be removed from the car. Those individuals have fabricated a tool similar to the one used to support the engine when removing the transmission from a FWD car. It is a bar that goes from shock tower to shock tower and lifts the engine high enough to remove the oilpan.

I was not involved in the decision to accept or decline the protest. I will say that it was a unique situation given the timeline the weather had thrown the event schedule into. One run Saturday morning became qualifying and more importantly class runoff. I will stand behind my boss's decision to accept the protest. If I had been asked my opinion at the time I would have voted to accept the protest as I feel there was sufficient time to teardown and reassemble the engine. All this being said I will post no more on the subject.

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions. I may be repremanded for making this post but I feel some things needed to be stated.)

Chuck Beach · 05-13-2007, 09:34 AM

Travis, with all due respect, and thank you for posting your opinion, but the cost of building an LS1 is outragous. No way would I have rushed putting this motor back together in that short period of time and risk overlooking something to make first round.

The rule book states very clearly the procedure for protests. Weather, track or any other circumstance is not defined. The rule book is black and white and if you don't abide by it, then what good is it? The correct thing to do was to allow the racer to race, then when the racer got beat, that would have been the time to take him apart. Only if the racer had a heads up would anyone have anything to say about being 8 grams light, but the fact of the matter is that no way this would enhance performance.

If the protest procedure was allowed to be altered then the assembly weight of the rod and piston should have been altered too .... rules are rules .....

junior barns · 05-13-2007, 09:41 AM

so from what i read 4 1/2 hrs is enough time to pull a rod and piston and put back together as this was the timeline given to race time!

there you go guys if any racers has a problem with an individual or as larry or patsy stated to try to take out a points leader, just pool the money between 10 or 20 of your buddys and take someone down ( JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN) ! give them 4 1/2 hrs to do it and let them go to town.

as much as i respect you travis i think you ars wrong on this one!

just my 2 cents worth

G Schenck · 05-13-2007, 01:04 PM

It's been years since I've run S/SS but shouldn't you get a shakedown run after a teardown to make sure everything is OK.

Greg

SSDiv6 · 05-14-2007, 09:41 AM

It appears the new rule is that you get to do the shakedown at the next race since you did not have the time to finish the car.[:-veryangry-:]

Travis with all do respect to you and knowing you have to support your employer and boss even if they make a bad decision; the call was wrong and contrary to the rule book....or...is this rule in the Competition Procedures book you guys carry around that the racers do not have access to?

05-12-2007, 01:46 PM	#32
CycloneFE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Decatur Illinois Posts: 634 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	While I was there at Gateway on the day in question, I was unaware of any of this going on. Several of you elude to the fact you might have some details that would answer a lot of the questions, shame on you. Don't even waste our time here. Lets get it all out. Facts especially, and come up with a suggestion to NHRA. Then, as said previously, they need to have another course of action in the event that the race schedule has to change. NHRA is making those changes for the pro's and the tv scheduling, well this is a by-product that THEY must deal with. Cyclone FE __________________ Steve Jackson

05-12-2007, 02:57 PM	#33
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Jack, Good for you! I heard you gained some much-needed weight over the winter! Bruce Witherspoon, Please give us some information about the time line. I don't think anybody has come up with accurate numbers yet. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

05-12-2007, 10:43 PM	#34
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,633 Likes: 1,928 Liked 10,687 Times in 2,225 Posts	We finished up running our 1 round of qualifying and class around 10:30. The protest came up around 11:00. We were scheduled to run 1st round at 3:30. We didn't run 1st round until 5:30 or so, but this still would not have given Paul time to get his engine back together had he been legal. The protest should not have been allowed to happen in the 1st place. That was not enough time to get reassembled. Good luck to all you points leaders later in the season when your opponent wants to keep you out of competition for the race. Just protest---on the day of eliminations and your competitor won't be able to get back together in time to race. And this is supposed to be FUN!!! Patsy Larry __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

05-13-2007, 09:34 AM	#37
Chuck Beach Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 664 Likes: 12 Liked 58 Times in 13 Posts	Travis, with all due respect, and thank you for posting your opinion, but the cost of building an LS1 is outragous. No way would I have rushed putting this motor back together in that short period of time and risk overlooking something to make first round. The rule book states very clearly the procedure for protests. Weather, track or any other circumstance is not defined. The rule book is black and white and if you don't abide by it, then what good is it? The correct thing to do was to allow the racer to race, then when the racer got beat, that would have been the time to take him apart. Only if the racer had a heads up would anyone have anything to say about being 8 grams light, but the fact of the matter is that no way this would enhance performance. If the protest procedure was allowed to be altered then the assembly weight of the rod and piston should have been altered too .... rules are rules ..... __________________ Chuck Beach 3340 STK

05-13-2007, 09:41 AM	#38
junior barns Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 541 Likes: 11 Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts	so from what i read 4 1/2 hrs is enough time to pull a rod and piston and put back together as this was the timeline given to race time! there you go guys if any racers has a problem with an individual or as larry or patsy stated to try to take out a points leader, just pool the money between 10 or 20 of your buddys and take someone down ( JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN) ! give them 4 1/2 hrs to do it and let them go to town. as much as i respect you travis i think you ars wrong on this one! just my 2 cents worth

05-13-2007, 01:04 PM	#39
G Schenck Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Harahan, La. Posts: 521 Likes: 41 Liked 81 Times in 35 Posts	It's been years since I've run S/SS but shouldn't you get a shakedown run after a teardown to make sure everything is OK. Greg

05-14-2007, 09:41 AM	#40
SSDiv6 VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Glendale, Arizona Posts: 3,043 Likes: 712 Liked 1,578 Times in 581 Posts	It appears the new rule is that you get to do the shakedown at the next race since you did not have the time to finish the car.[:-veryangry-:] Travis with all do respect to you and knowing you have to support your employer and boss even if they make a bad decision; the call was wrong and contrary to the rule book....or...is this rule in the Competition Procedures book you guys carry around that the racers do not have access to?