The Compulink AUTO START System once armed to :ON

[bigshow2966]

Every track I have raced at (brackets) we have been told Autostart was 7 seconds.

[Cglrcng]

Last thoughts. After reading all I can so far find concerning info about the Computek Sure Start System, attempting to understand why, how it was coded, when, and the stuff and reasoning used. My humble opinion, great system, it works as designed. But, it was never added to our ruleset.

It is high time our ruleset includes it. Let's ask for a change to ammend the Race Proceedures , Section 2 of the NHRA to finally include the system we race under and use. Then this situation will not smack any of us side the head again....Next time it may get you instead of Bill and I, and that would be a shame.

And I would fight just as hard to avoid it getting you too, or us again. I have offered to help Build Bill's transaxle back stronger so that pin can never fall out of either one of ours again, I hope he takes me up on it, we have unfinished business on the track I hope.

I have personally no suggested changes I can think of concerning the Sure Start System itself, beyond adding it to the ruleset so there are no conflicts. It was designed to be good, not perfect...it replaced perfect and guessable.

The other answers are approx. 10 or 7 seconds, and all the other variations and variables you will find at the following link ...if you can fully understand them.

It took me 10 readings and a lot of math, and all I could think of was RIP Buster Couch! What a really cool memorial to the original NHRA Starter. And thank you to the Compulink Crew.

https://www.draglist.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=473

[Cglrcng]

Digest all those timing variables, do a crapload of math, guess and you are going to get caught, the starter as long as he has a clear track, can arm it early, or as late as both fully staged (though that is dangerous), as long as the class isn't allowed to burnout across the line that is on the arming it early.

Then, once armed, 3rd light lit, flashes don't count pretty much, pre/ post counts are finished, tree activation (never exactly repeated the same, as timing variations are preset to be a dice roll game by the computer coding), just emulating a human without any emotions. So, most of the situations in the thread pretty much can happen, nobody is really wrong, almost all can be right.

It is the ruleset (not taking the system into account, that is currently wrong). As once armed (Starter go signal, competitive drivers start or activation is in their hands, and you can actually attempt a qualifying pass by just pre-staging, can foul out and never actually get staged, can have an incomplete pass, and never actually get staged up, as long as you prestaged together if that switch was thrown by the starter to Compulink Sure Start :ON, and the rules say an incomplete pass is assigned a 28.00 second qualifying time. Broke or not, later Q passes count, C1 in our case is advertised and announced also as Q2.

But, without the system even mentioned in Section 2, Race Proceedures it is then something that will create conflicts, and push decisions off onto NHRA Division or National Event Director(s). And on the fly decisions like that (for no good reason at all), are not fair to them, or the competitors.

Anyone actually disagree that the ruleset needs ammending? Please enter the debate, state your case.

[Cglrcng]

Originally Posted by bigshow2966

Every track I have raced at (brackets) we have been told Autostart was 7 seconds.

And you would be correct (about 7 seconds, plus or minus), if track clear & switch is armed as both approach pre-stage, takes both to start, and can sit there both pre-staged all day (at least until the starter directs you both in), nothing happens...but once one stages, or both, those variables get closer, tre is activated, then lots of tiny variables take over. However, if driver 2 does not stage up, that time out period ends (redlight)red-light, deep stage both can get caught (both out,only 1 goes deep 1 out, rollback same, leave early same, first or worse takes over, except final round on the deep double foul, that ends up a rerun). More foul variations of course.scales/fuel ck, lots to list.

The evolution of the game over the years is cool, and why I will never understand anyone going off of a flagger or flashlight personally. It took us a loooong time to get here, why go backwards?

[JP1738]

I made my way through this novel and I have a few take-aways.

For starters, you are absolutely right, the verbiage of the rulebook needs to be updated to include, in detail, the exact mechanisms autostart uses for all classes, how it is activated, and specific descriptions of each scenario that is possible. At this point, all we have to go on is precedent, and that is not enough.

You should have been awarded the buy-run in C1 of the EF/S class race. Your man made a legitimate attempt to get on the qualifying sheet and failed to post a time. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, especially given he was not awarded a withdrawal. I hate that happened to you, but I'm glad it inspired this conversation and that you are trying to turn your misfortune into a learning experience for all of Class Racer and hopefully for the NHRA Rules committee or whoever is in charge of updating the rulebook.

EF/S is cool. I want to build one too. I still have the '93 Ford Festiva I drove to high school and it's either getting cut-up for a small block or turned into an EF/S in the next few years. Haven't decided which and I have no time-table for either.

I think the disallowing of deepstaging is retarded. Pros are allowed to do so, why not sportsman? I would not deepstage even if I were allowed to, but I've no idea why we aren't permitted to. If a guy accidentally punches one in deep, I don't think he should be DQ'd for it. Make it where deepstaging is not honored, do so at your own risk, but an instant red seems too punishing to me. Just my opinion. A guy trying to get deepstaged when it isn't honored, or accidentally doing so is probably not winning that round or the race anyway, so why do we have to throw him out? I don't get the thinking behind that.

DD communication is pretty poor across the board. In D2, Cody Savage has been the best I've experienced, but he still isn't perfect. Communication can be delayed, decisions aren't clear at times, but overall he does a great job and is more than fair to participants.

Shoutout to all my slow brothers! I am not 17.00 slow, but in the 5 Stock eliminator races I've entered, I've still never left first.

TL/DR: I'm with you on all the autostart stuff, it needs to be more clearly written and described so all can understand. Seems strange to me that we've had the system for 15 years and yet it is still shrouded in confusion at times.

[JP1738]

Found this too. It could be grounds for justification of the decision that was made by your DD:

"The practice referred to as “deep staging” is prohibited in the
Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, and Super Street
categories (permitted in all other categories). Both pre-stage and
stage lights must be activated to constitute a legal start in those
categories."

In race procedures. Your guy never lit both stage bulbs so it was not a legal start and therefore not a legit run. At least that's how I'm reading it.

[Cglrcng]

Exactly JP, but only because the institution of the Compulink Auto Start System was never even actually added to the Rules Section 2 "Race Procedures" at all (so our race reality), does not at all match the rules. That is the issue I am pointing out, and will now work to get corrected.

If you take that situation at face value (then the racer has not completed the pass but did make the qualifying attempt by pre-staging, proven by the red timeout and the Qualifying Attemp, should be listed on the Qualifying sheet as an incomplete pass. Other rules there...an incomplete pass is awarded a 28:00 seconds, then said entry is allowed (if they can get that broke car fixed), to make Q2 (in our case was also Class race C1), to improve their Qualifying position.

That would have left the entry on the class pairing sheet and 2 entries in EF/S, and if that entry does not report for Q2, also C1 in our case, I go for the.Bye in C1. And that leaves 5 cars in the Auto Combo, and Mr. Snow has a bye in C1 (as he was fastest of the 5 in Q1). (I do not blame the Division Director, I blame the lack of the rules being corrected yet, for the rules on the real conditions we race under not even including the Compulink Sure Start System. Which pushes the D.D. in this case into making a series of decisions (adding a human element into the scenario that should not exist, because if the rules reflected reality he would not need to ever make those decisions).

The fact that the system is not reflected, is the real issue.

Since the rules were never corrected or amended, the D.D. then makes a decision, his decision at the race (according to the other competitor was to NOT ALLOW THE WITHDRAWAL), but, on the sheets his entry was withdrawn (later to be withdrawn after the race as far as points assigned, and after the Tuesday evening we both e-mailed the D.D.).

If the rules of Race Proceedures was up to date, those corrections and decisions are never made, and at least 1 of the 2 EF/S entries goes home with a trophy, the D.D. needs not make any decions, or go back and fix any errors, the 2 of us may have attempted to fix his car because he would have been on the Qualifying sheet (albeit at over index 28:00 seconds or 10.25 over his 17.75 Index), one of the reasons he chose not to attempt the fix, is he knew by the current reading (even though he raced there the 2 days before, it was a new race, race 2 of a double, and he had no Qualifying Time yet in race 2, and we could get the Trans out in 2 hrs., not complete it in 3, but had all day and night to get him fixed by E1 the next morning.

So, he chose to request the withdrawn entry. That it was denied, yet they withdraw the entry from the Class pushing me into the Auto Combo was a highly damaging (at least to our Class), decision.

You can never really go back later and repair all the damages caused by bad rules. So, to avoid that...just fix the rules to reflect the system is being used in Section 2, Race Proceedures! Late action is better than never as the situation is bound to happen again. And that keeps our D.D.'s from making any decisions to address when it does happen. Once that Compulink Auto Switch is thrown to :ON, the rules would be clear...any incomplete passes are assigned the 28:second, and the paid entries, are qualified once received that Starters go signal (throwing the switch), and the drivers pre-staging the entry. (Because that is the true reality we all race under).

We no longer really race under the Staging, and Starter Go signal process (in that order anymore at least), as the rules currently state. (The specific rule you pointed out). It is impossible to achieve fairness, because that does not match reality anymore. The game changed, change the rules to match and reflect the game. (We really race Starter Go signal arming, prestage, competitors attempt to stage or not, fail to stage and time outs, foul outs possible. All would be incomplete or completed attempts.

The added starting system element was added 15 yrs ago, but the rules never even mention it was. The fix is simple, UPDATE THE RULES, FIX THE PROBLEM. it isn't rocket science.

The simple fix, keeps the human element from getting forced to make decisions, and returns it to cut and dried honest rules deciding, and keeps D.D.'s from making bad decisions on the fly at the events. Win for them, win for us, win all the way around. you make a qualifying attempt and you at least get to pre-staged the pair or single position and break your vehicle in Q1, you have time to fix it and show up for Q2/C1 (or Q3 if there is 1, there was not in our equation this particular race), or E1.

As bad as things were, if the rules read correctly (we could have fixed his car before morning E1 (no way before Q2/C1), and that I am sure of). Plenty of parts suppliers in Vegas, and I had a storage unit loaded w/ parts 8 miles away, just not an A-413 spare carrier/case. But the full knowledge and know how (books), to do so in about 5 hrs out/in. Plus securing the parts we needed once out and carrier disassembled.

He made the Q1 attemp (the tree in the video shows him red light timed out and still pre-staged at the point Mr. Farmer was completing his Q1 pass and they begin pushinghim back), but the existing fantasy racing rules, did not place him in the qualified to race E1 field.

The really sad part, was denying him the withdrawal, then taking him off the paired C2/C1 sheet and out of the EF/S class (effectively out of the category at that moment as a paid entry after the denial), and the aftermath snowballed into a sad situation for both of us, for the Class, and the category. Worst of all, for the Division Director, who later had to backtrack, long after the race. Not a good look (though I respect that he fixed something), took action, necessary action later, and fixed something. He was in a tough position because of the rules not reflecting our racing reality currently.

[Cglrcng]

JP, thanks brother I don't feel so alone on the bridge anymore, change is always hard, and forcing needed change (that has been needed for 15 years, and never accomplished my life experience so far, has told me, even that much harder), this thread so far has nearly 5,000 views, we just need a few more that agree, and as many as possible who may disagree to debate the whys, both sides make their opinions known, and present our views together to the powers that be to take action.

Change is easier to address after it is debated fully, and an interested group pushes for it. But, if we delay too long, it will happen to others, and once entrenched longer than 15 years, it is harder to get accomplished.

I appreciate you taking the time brother to read the novel and parse it out honestly and respond. Leaving first is really not that hard, as long as the tree shows green on your side. .000, dead on, first or last leaving, go get em.

Thx again for participating!