AHFS details - Page 5

Ed Wright · 08-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron Worner

Any news on the AHFS???

Byron, from what I read only the SS/GT LT1s got it, right? Not regular SS cars? Did I miss something? You run SS/IA? All these SS/GT cars built like Comp cars makes my very happy they use different factors.

Byron Worner · 08-08-2009, 01:10 PM

Yes only the GT combo got hit but my brother's car is an f body camaro. He has gotten 12 horsepower in the last two years from a cavalier. That's another arguement.

Bryan Worner · 08-08-2009, 06:37 PM

Mike, I have sent numberous emails to Bruce w/others cc'd in, expressing my concern with the omission of that sentence!!!

The AHFS was implemented to prevent horsepower being given to a combo for a one time hit on the combo!! Now, with the way it reads without that sentence, that is exactly what they are doing.....giving horsepower base on a single event!!!! My reply from Bruce was 3 runs from Joliet of greater than 1.15 under triggered this review!! Even though my overall engine family avg. was .800 under and my class average was .780 under.....I'm being penalized because somebody running a class which I cannot, ran 1.15 under 3 times at a single event, thus "triggering" the review under this "NEW" system!!

I think NHRA should admit this sentence is key to the AHFS, and recind all horsepower given on combo effected by single event horsepower triggers that were given out in this last review!!!

I have requested this with emails to Bruce, Pat and others!! I have yet to hear back an answer on that request!! Just that "this is the way the rule reads now" so basically deal with it!!! I'm sorry, but to me that is just not acceptable and I will keep voicing my displeasure to whomever wants to hear it!!! Or should I say whomever I want to hear it!!!

art leong · 08-08-2009, 08:57 PM

When they factored me over 8 percent in one shot it was fine with everyone.
Watch out they can do that to you.
They make the rules and you have to abide by them, not them.

Greg Hill · 08-09-2009, 08:42 AM

Until racers have input into the system and there is accountability it will never be fair. This is another example of NHRA doing whatever they want with no regard to what is right or fair. Mike I appreciate your efforts but you are wasting your time and energy. For those who say it's their organization and if you don't like it don't race, I say BS. It's our organization founded for the benefit of the members. Right now the main focus is keeping top management and board members lavish salary structure in place. A non profit should have accountability to it's members.

Chuck Norton · 08-09-2009, 10:54 AM

I'm afraid that this issue has about played itself out for this go-around. About all that's left to do is to apply the lessons of the past couple of weeks to the future. My view of the situation is not a personal reflection on any of the individuals involved and I certainly appreciate the willingness of a number of very visible participants in the AHFS/tech process to either contact me directly or to send me their views through other conduits. As in most similar situations that involve almost every aspect of our daily lives in addition to this sport, no one is ever at fault for something that doesn't meet general expectations. For a large organization, that's the beauty of a "committee" or a "system." It's impossible for anyone outside the inner loop to find out exactly what transpired.

We can only lick our wounds and plan ahead. To me, there are several basic things that are clear:

1. Nothing ever remains what it seems to be for very long. Sudden, abrupt changes are what it's all about.
2. The wording of any "system" is usually vague enough to eventually bite you in the ***. That's why it's called a "system."
3. Anyone who relies on "past practice" as interpreted by any "system" is likely to be unpleasantly surprised.
4. This is merely precursor to other interpretations that could be made, either pre-announced or applied retroactively. We need to study the "system" for how it can. worst case, be interpreted and plan for that eventuality.
5. Screw me once, it's your fault. Screw me twice, it's my fault.

Among the future surprises that might show up (unannounced or retroactively) could be:

1. Runs at altitude tracks could be counted (unannounced and/or retroactively).
2. Runs at National Opens and/or Divisionals could be viewed as triggers and/or counted in the average (unannounced and/or retroactively). Don't assume that just because it is more complicated to do it this way, it won't be done. Most of us are computer literate enough to know that it could be done electronically should the organization decide to devote resources to resolving the side issues.
3. The wording of the "system" including phrases such as "engine family average" and "class/engine average" can be re-interpreted at any time for any reason, unannounced and/or retroactively.

The bottom line is clearly that racers can take nothing for granted. Any time that any racer goes down the track, the data will be available to someone at some point in the future to be used to justify any interpretation. We've just had an example laid out for us. If we don't learn from it, it's our own fault.

c

EMMONS MOTORSPORTS · 08-09-2009, 04:58 PM

Sure would make me nervous to run the CIC race at No Problem Raceway for the Sports Nationals next year.

Bobby Brannon · 08-09-2009, 05:40 PM

Sportsnational do not count toward AHFS per NHRA

Irv Johns · 08-09-2009, 05:47 PM

EMMONS and don't know which one but..

With the new Taylor power in your 2 cars you should be nervous anywhere..LOL...Wow that Cavalier is fast now and consistent..You all can really get some HP triggers now,LOL.

Bryan Worner · 08-09-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMMONS MOTORSPORTS

Sure would make me nervous to run the CIC race at No Problem Raceway for the Sports Nationals next year.

We should ask NHRA for a written statement that it will NOT count!!

08-08-2009, 01:10 PM	#42
Byron Worner Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 231 Likes: 15 Liked 37 Times in 7 Posts	Re: AHFS details Yes only the GT combo got hit but my brother's car is an f body camaro. He has gotten 12 horsepower in the last two years from a cavalier. That's another arguement.

08-08-2009, 06:37 PM	#43
Bryan Worner Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Duncannon, PA Posts: 825 Likes: 137 Liked 535 Times in 86 Posts	Re: AHFS details Mike, I have sent numberous emails to Bruce w/others cc'd in, expressing my concern with the omission of that sentence!!! The AHFS was implemented to prevent horsepower being given to a combo for a one time hit on the combo!! Now, with the way it reads without that sentence, that is exactly what they are doing.....giving horsepower base on a single event!!!! My reply from Bruce was 3 runs from Joliet of greater than 1.15 under triggered this review!! Even though my overall engine family avg. was .800 under and my class average was .780 under.....I'm being penalized because somebody running a class which I cannot, ran 1.15 under 3 times at a single event, thus "triggering" the review under this "NEW" system!! I think NHRA should admit this sentence is key to the AHFS, and recind all horsepower given on combo effected by single event horsepower triggers that were given out in this last review!!! I have requested this with emails to Bruce, Pat and others!! I have yet to hear back an answer on that request!! Just that "this is the way the rule reads now" so basically deal with it!!! I'm sorry, but to me that is just not acceptable and I will keep voicing my displeasure to whomever wants to hear it!!! Or should I say whomever I want to hear it!!! Last edited by Bryan Worner; 08-08-2009 at 06:40 PM.

08-08-2009, 08:57 PM	#44
art leong VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia Posts: 2,003 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: AHFS details When they factored me over 8 percent in one shot it was fine with everyone. Watch out they can do that to you. They make the rules and you have to abide by them, not them. __________________ Art Leong 2095 SS

08-09-2009, 08:42 AM	#45
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 69 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	Re: AHFS details Until racers have input into the system and there is accountability it will never be fair. This is another example of NHRA doing whatever they want with no regard to what is right or fair. Mike I appreciate your efforts but you are wasting your time and energy. For those who say it's their organization and if you don't like it don't race, I say BS. It's our organization founded for the benefit of the members. Right now the main focus is keeping top management and board members lavish salary structure in place. A non profit should have accountability to it's members. __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

08-09-2009, 10:54 AM	#46
Chuck Norton Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Covina, CA Posts: 474 Likes: 114 Liked 89 Times in 19 Posts	Re: AHFS details I'm afraid that this issue has about played itself out for this go-around. About all that's left to do is to apply the lessons of the past couple of weeks to the future. My view of the situation is not a personal reflection on any of the individuals involved and I certainly appreciate the willingness of a number of very visible participants in the AHFS/tech process to either contact me directly or to send me their views through other conduits. As in most similar situations that involve almost every aspect of our daily lives in addition to this sport, no one is ever at fault for something that doesn't meet general expectations. For a large organization, that's the beauty of a "committee" or a "system." It's impossible for anyone outside the inner loop to find out exactly what transpired. We can only lick our wounds and plan ahead. To me, there are several basic things that are clear: 1. Nothing ever remains what it seems to be for very long. Sudden, abrupt changes are what it's all about. 2. The wording of any "system" is usually vague enough to eventually bite you in the ***. That's why it's called a "system." 3. Anyone who relies on "past practice" as interpreted by any "system" is likely to be unpleasantly surprised. 4. This is merely precursor to other interpretations that could be made, either pre-announced or applied retroactively. We need to study the "system" for how it can. worst case, be interpreted and plan for that eventuality. 5. Screw me once, it's your fault. Screw me twice, it's my fault. Among the future surprises that might show up (unannounced or retroactively) could be: 1. Runs at altitude tracks could be counted (unannounced and/or retroactively). 2. Runs at National Opens and/or Divisionals could be viewed as triggers and/or counted in the average (unannounced and/or retroactively). Don't assume that just because it is more complicated to do it this way, it won't be done. Most of us are computer literate enough to know that it could be done electronically should the organization decide to devote resources to resolving the side issues. 3. The wording of the "system" including phrases such as "engine family average" and "class/engine average" can be re-interpreted at any time for any reason, unannounced and/or retroactively. The bottom line is clearly that racers can take nothing for granted. Any time that any racer goes down the track, the data will be available to someone at some point in the future to be used to justify any interpretation. We've just had an example laid out for us. If we don't learn from it, it's our own fault. c

08-09-2009, 04:58 PM	#47
EMMONS MOTORSPORTS Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: League City, TX 77573 Posts: 179 Likes: 88 Liked 106 Times in 23 Posts	Re: AHFS details Sure would make me nervous to run the CIC race at No Problem Raceway for the Sports Nationals next year.

08-09-2009, 05:40 PM	#48
Bobby Brannon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bossier City,La. Posts: 659 Likes: 3 Liked 104 Times in 35 Posts	Re: AHFS details Sportsnational do not count toward AHFS per NHRA __________________ Bobby Brannon 4705 STK, SS

08-09-2009, 05:47 PM	#49
Irv Johns Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 178 Likes: 1 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: AHFS details EMMONS and don't know which one but.. With the new Taylor power in your 2 cars you should be nervous anywhere..LOL...Wow that Cavalier is fast now and consistent..You all can really get some HP triggers now,LOL.