Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers - Page 5

PONTIAC'S REVENGE · 10-09-2009, 03:43 PM

Terry,
U got that right!!!! Just ask me I live in a $600 mo apt and lost the house kept the biz. By the way in Indianer we are court ordered to pay college not that we wouldnt anyway lynn's kids are smart so they get lots of scholarship money. The blond wife is an enigma.

Yes we tried, evidently edlebrock doesnt want to entertain running a special production of heads...the heads that were available were a nightmare to get approved. If it were me I would have given up way before lynn did. U have two big corporations trying to tell each other how to do things and it just doesn't always work. Its just not worth edlebrocks time to run a special head for just a few people. They say show me the money!!

So I'll tell you right now they have to already be making one close before it will even fly!!!! A lot of these decisions are made because there is no economic benefit to the companies. I think racers forget this sometimes. NHRA is a Biz and so is Edlebrock. Again if you think you have a legitimate case present it!! Then prepare to spend alot of time and energy to get it done

Its on a case by case basis and the precedent seems to be availability and cost. There are tech officials for this and against it also, but I dont know anyone thats for opening it up to any combo. There are some reasons for it but the reasons against it far outweight them at this time. My guess is that it will move that direction over time anyway. They're all just realizing the benefits.

Stacy
GTAA

CMac455 · 10-10-2009, 07:24 AM

Although it seems logical for every motor to have an aluminum head, it wouldn't be practical for NHRA. Not every available aftermarket aluminum head retains the factory head specifications as far as volumes and valve sizes are concerned. It's hard to imagine NHRA having to mandate their own approved castings for every combo in SS, whenever they claim to be non-profit for the Sportsmen.

Ignoring that part of it, I would like to see NHRA get rid of the intake/exhaust runner volume limits for the factory castings, then control it with HP (maybe ten HP added from initial HP.) Then you could run the aluminum castings as well, but you would have to retain factory volumes, but no initial HP would be added.

Stephen & Horace Johnson · 10-10-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Get rid of the wife and let the boys work their way thru college ? Just kidding before anyone goes off. Lynn knows me pretty well. Besides getting rid of the wife would cost more than keeping her.....LOL. OH....you mean the alum. heads.........Why cant Edelbrock cast the heads with 102 and larger combustion chambers? I seems to me it would be an easy fix for a company casting so many different head combinations. They even started casting 409 heads so whats so hard about it for a company already doing this type of work? Then you could re sumit the request and they should get the stamp of approval. Tell Lynn I said hello.
Terry

Well been there done that with calling about recasting a head with the correct runner volume. We went through that with Ed for about 2yrs.

Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Ronnie Scott · 10-13-2009, 10:10 AM

Can the World Products 4360 be used as a replacement for the 441 head 250/290 horse combination?
Thanks

James L Miller · 10-13-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PONTIAC'S REVENGE

NHRA refused us the aluminum on this motor combination because his combo was 102cc combustion chamber and the edlebrocks were 85cc. The official said they weren't gonna give us that much chamber to "play with".

Since the Pontiacs had machined chambers from the factory, can Edelbrock just CNC the chamber to get closer to the 102cc chamber? I don't know how much material is in there to get it all the way to 102cc, but maybe if they can get it to 95cc then add HP to compensate, that would seem to be a good compromise.

Aaron Keown · 10-13-2009, 11:18 PM

Being in this buisness I can definately see both sides of this argument,and both have valid points.One thing is for sure,if N.H.R.A. ever did decide to do something like this they need to give everyone a couple of years notice.
We have built a few engines that can run factory heads or take the 5 h.p. hit and run the world/dart iron head and I probably don't have to tell you which one everyone picks,and who can blame them.My point is as long is there is a h.p. advantage to the factory heads people will continue to build and run them.
The thing that really sucks when these kind of things come up is that while you make things more reliable for one group of racers ,you force a whole other group to make the decision to stop racing.Do this kind of thig enough times and you end up with nobody to race.
On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

69ss/rs · 10-18-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Kuehl

I would hit the Aluminum head's with 10 hp like I have been told the small block Ford aluminum head's are and the cast iron head's hit with 5 hp like most of them are now . The thing I don't like about this is how long before sombody want's to replace the Q-JET'S with 750 Double Pumper's because they are getting to hard to find or that person can't make a Q-Jet work . All these changes are just getting us farther and farther away from what Super Stock really is suppossed to be . I know the head's are getting harder to find but it just seem's to me that if you at least use the orginal material if at all possible it would be keeping closer to the orginal intent of Super Stock .
Al

Al, where have you been NHRA has been allowing replacement Q-jets for about 10 years or so. You can buy new ones from Edelbrock or JET. So you don't have to worry about them being replaced by 750s'.

69ss/rs · 10-18-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Keown

Being in this buisness I can definately see both sides of this argument,and both have valid points.One thing is for sure,if N.H.R.A. ever did decide to do something like this they need to give everyone a couple of years notice.
We have built a few engines that can run factory heads or take the 5 h.p. hit and run the world/dart iron head and I probably don't have to tell you which one everyone picks,and who can blame them.My point is as long is there is a h.p. advantage to the factory heads people will continue to build and run them.
The thing that really sucks when these kind of things come up is that while you make things more reliable for one group of racers ,you force a whole other group to make the decision to stop racing.Do this kind of thig enough times and you end up with nobody to race.
On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

Aaron, you are missing my point; nobody is trying to stop the guys that want to spend the money to find the old heads and then take the risk that they will hold up after all the welding and grinding, because they think that they are getting a HP break. But why not give the rest of the other guys a choice. I know you guys build a lot of older model small blocks, so what do you do when you can't find those heads anymore,tell the guy to build a newer motor combo or quit racing? They say that there are replacement heads for some of the combos available from dart or motown, so how is that any different than the aluminum head except for the material the head is made from. My point is that NHRA had better do something or you WILL begin to lose the 60&70 engine combos.

treessavoy · 10-19-2009, 03:16 PM

There's a simple solution here.....change the rules and not allow any more porting and polishing!

Or, an expensive solution.....make everyone buy aluminum heads whereupon the odd engine/make car guys get gouged buy edlebrock while you chevy guys pay very little for yours.

JimR

RJ · 10-20-2009, 05:47 AM

All the older engines (50's,60',s,70's) need to have a legal replacement option. Some of you are looking for 40 year old heads today, that will be 50 year old heads 10 years from now! The integrity of super stock (and stock) is long gone. They are legal, but I don't think .937 keyway lifters and sheet intakes are in the spirit of the class, but it is what it is. A super stock motor is nothing less than a comp elim. motor with less compression, and legal part numbers on the heads and carb(s). Fords and Chevys already have the option, the wedge mopars need the same.

10-09-2009, 03:43 PM	#41
PONTIAC'S REVENGE Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CARMEL, INDIANA Posts: 141 Likes: 69 Liked 48 Times in 18 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Terry, U got that right!!!! Just ask me I live in a $600 mo apt and lost the house kept the biz. By the way in Indianer we are court ordered to pay college not that we wouldnt anyway lynn's kids are smart so they get lots of scholarship money. The blond wife is an enigma. Yes we tried, evidently edlebrock doesnt want to entertain running a special production of heads...the heads that were available were a nightmare to get approved. If it were me I would have given up way before lynn did. U have two big corporations trying to tell each other how to do things and it just doesn't always work. Its just not worth edlebrocks time to run a special head for just a few people. They say show me the money!! So I'll tell you right now they have to already be making one close before it will even fly!!!! A lot of these decisions are made because there is no economic benefit to the companies. I think racers forget this sometimes. NHRA is a Biz and so is Edlebrock. Again if you think you have a legitimate case present it!! Then prepare to spend alot of time and energy to get it done Its on a case by case basis and the precedent seems to be availability and cost. There are tech officials for this and against it also, but I dont know anyone thats for opening it up to any combo. There are some reasons for it but the reasons against it far outweight them at this time. My guess is that it will move that direction over time anyway. They're all just realizing the benefits. Stacy GTAA

10-10-2009, 07:24 AM	#42
CMac455 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 8 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Although it seems logical for every motor to have an aluminum head, it wouldn't be practical for NHRA. Not every available aftermarket aluminum head retains the factory head specifications as far as volumes and valve sizes are concerned. It's hard to imagine NHRA having to mandate their own approved castings for every combo in SS, whenever they claim to be non-profit for the Sportsmen. Ignoring that part of it, I would like to see NHRA get rid of the intake/exhaust runner volume limits for the factory castings, then control it with HP (maybe ten HP added from initial HP.) Then you could run the aluminum castings as well, but you would have to retain factory volumes, but no initial HP would be added.

10-13-2009, 10:10 AM	#44
Ronnie Scott Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mattapoisett MA Posts: 14 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Can the World Products 4360 be used as a replacement for the 441 head 250/290 horse combination? Thanks

10-13-2009, 11:18 PM	#46
Aaron Keown Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 1710 Dutch Lane,Jeffersonville,IN Posts: 63 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers Being in this buisness I can definately see both sides of this argument,and both have valid points.One thing is for sure,if N.H.R.A. ever did decide to do something like this they need to give everyone a couple of years notice. We have built a few engines that can run factory heads or take the 5 h.p. hit and run the world/dart iron head and I probably don't have to tell you which one everyone picks,and who can blame them.My point is as long is there is a h.p. advantage to the factory heads people will continue to build and run them. The thing that really sucks when these kind of things come up is that while you make things more reliable for one group of racers ,you force a whole other group to make the decision to stop racing.Do this kind of thig enough times and you end up with nobody to race. On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

10-19-2009, 03:16 PM	#49
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers There's a simple solution here.....change the rules and not allow any more porting and polishing! Or, an expensive solution.....make everyone buy aluminum heads whereupon the odd engine/make car guys get gouged buy edlebrock while you chevy guys pay very little for yours. JimR __________________ Jim Rountree

10-20-2009, 05:47 AM	#50
RJ Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 248 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers All the older engines (50's,60',s,70's) need to have a legal replacement option. Some of you are looking for 40 year old heads today, that will be 50 year old heads 10 years from now! The integrity of super stock (and stock) is long gone. They are legal, but I don't think .937 keyway lifters and sheet intakes are in the spirit of the class, but it is what it is. A super stock motor is nothing less than a comp elim. motor with less compression, and legal part numbers on the heads and carb(s). Fords and Chevys already have the option, the wedge mopars need the same.